Working moms/mums - come share tips and get support too! #2

[olkan]

Kerri - thank you for your support, as always I realize me being away from DD would have to happen at some point and I just need to work out the plan and accept it, I guess the first time is tough on everyone. She's generally not a mommy-clinging baby, and it looks like DH is more than willing to step in. My MIL has gone back home already to renew a visa, and was refused one, I'm on vacation now to look after my lo, but then it runs out and if my MIL cannot get a visa on a 2nd attempt, we'd have to look for a nanny on such crazy short notice, so bloody travel is such wrong timing rrrr. My DH is really against nannies or daycare, he even spoke about him quitting the job to be at home with the DD, so I'm just keeping fingers crossed MIL will be able to get a visa on appeal.

Lidia, IKWYM on being jealous with MIL cuddling my LO. With my MIL actually looking after DD all day past months, she was probably more mommy to her then I was, but I just kept reminding myself that my DD needs a happy, fulfilled, easygoing mother, and it's great for her to have an opportunity to interact with different people, she learns communication etc.
On pumping Tessa is 7 months, and I guess with a 10 month old baby your body reacts differently, but when I see my milk supply going down, I start adding extra pumping session during the day or at night and pump right after the feed, even for 5-10 ml, whatever I can get out, drink lots of warm tea and eat more. When you say your can't get more than 20 ml, are your breasts empty, or is it you can't get a let down? If I can feel there is milk in my breasts, I will not quit until I pump it out all to the last drop, and after a few days I have much more milk again - so for me the key was to always make sure you empty the breast fully. I've also managed to learn to trigger the let down reflex, so the milk actually pours out like crazy, so when I need to increase, I go for 2 let downs per session, which takes long, but helps a lot.
In any case, you are already BF to 10 MONTHS! so even if you have to go on formula now, you've done such a great job for your LO already! My mom was telling me when she had me everyone routinely weaned at 8 months and this was considered "long BF".
Wish it works for you, sorry I don't have any tips on formula yet.
I was hoping to have a beach vacation when DD is 10 months, so now reading about how your DD loved water, can't wait to get my chubby sweetheart there
Hugs to all!

[campbellchick]

Hey there, Lidia great to hear from you  .  I used to be totally obssessed with Holly's routines etc. too since she was such a high maintenance baby and any time she didn't get a regular sleep, we would pay for it big time, but when I went back to work, I eventually overcame that.  Well, I have to admit, I am still a little obssessed, just no where near as bad.  I am glad you are getting some help and advice, it sounds like it is doing the world of good for you.  Now for the formula - when I first started mixing BM and formula with Holly, I started adding it to her bottle slowly.  She was really really sick just before she started daycare and my milk dropped dramatically.  I didn't realise until it was too late and I had to supplement her.  I was worried about it, so thought I had better get her used to formula just incase.  I originally started by adding 1/3 to 1 of her bottles.  When she didn't even seem to notice a difference, I added slightly more and went 50/50, sometimes on both bottles, depending on how much I could express.  I didn't usually have a problem expressing, but the formula actually seemed to help sleep and she started waking for only 1 feed through the night, so I kept the formula in her bottles at daycare ever since then.  When we went away in mid-November, it was the first time I had to give her a full bottle of formula without any BM.  I wasn't sure how she would react, but DH gave it to her and she just looked at him, then kept right on drinking  .  If you are worried and want to use formula, I would start mixing it in slowly to see how she goes with it.  You have done such a fantastic job getting this far - especially on only BM and working too - you deserve a medal!!!  The other options are you could try taking fenugreek or eat oatmeal etc. and see if this helps your supply get back up if you don't want to wean.

Unfortunately I think I need to wean completely  .  As I've said previously I have been really struggling for the last 2 months expressing enough milk and have only been getting 2oz at the very most, but usually around 1oz.  So I've felt that Holly is barely getting any BM in her daytime bottles.  Even the morning and evening BF's I've been topping her up afterwards most times.  SO, I made a decision last Wednesday that I would wean her daytime feed and just put her onto formula until she can go to cows milk but I would try to keep up the morning and evening feeds for a while.  Then, I got really really sick I think with a bacterial infection and I think dehydrated because I couldn't even hold water in for 3 days and now I don't think I have much milk.  I am not sure.  She also seems to be losing interest in BF'ing anyway because she just wants to get up and look around.  It is like she almost prefers the bottle because she can crawl around with it when she gets bored of laying there drinking...  But last night I just gave her a bottle of formula before bed, then I expressed around 9pm and got 1oz out.  Then this morning I tried to feed her after she woke up but she wouldn't even eat from either side for longer than about 2 mins  .  I thought maybe there wasn't any milk coming out because the morning feed is usually always our best feed!!  SO as I have been tossing up whether to wean her or not, I think I have made my decision finally and will call it quits.  It is probably mainly because I think she would be happier having a bottle.  When I get the bottle out and fill it with water - she just has the hugest smile on her face and gets so happy, so I can't deny that sort of happiness now can I...  It is still pretty sad though, but I am happy that I have almost reached my intended goal of 12 months...

Anyway enough about me, onto you Olga - I hope your MIL has some success getting her visa renewed and things go smoothly for you.  But I have to say from experience, daycare really isn't all that bad.  My kids absolutely love it because it is so social.  They both learn so much there (not always good though), but it really does help their development.  Of course, it is hard to find a daycare that you are really happy with too.  My kids just love the centre they go to and even when I pick them up after a 10.5hr day there, they are still smiling and happy.  Unfortunately we are moving and they have to switch centres, but thankfully we found one that we really like.  But, I know how stressful it is having to sort everything out last minute - that has been the story of my life in the last year - so I really hope it all works out for you.  And I hope your trip away goes well too - it is never at good timing when you have LO's.

[munzle]

Hi everyone, I'm going back to work this week, but only for 2 days a week. We feed 3 times a day (7, 11, 7) and they are all BFs. I was planning to switch the 11am feed to formula all the time (she happily takes whatever she's offered!) but I've changed my mind and really want to keep her on breast milk as much as possible. My question is, if she has formula at the 11am feed for the 2 days I'm at work, will it really mess up my supply, or will my boobs cope?! There's no chance of pumping at work as I'm a teacher and don't get 2 minutes to myself all day!

[lidiayy]

Hi All,

I'm so pleased to say that milk came again! 
I had to "force" a letdown but it came. Last week I was getting around 70 mL and yesterday I got 60 mL, can't complain.
I made a promise that I will only pump until my frozen milk stash runs out so only a few days to come (that was my deal for the letdown to come...  )

Kerrie - thanks for the tip. Sounds a good idea to start mixing BM with formula. Better start tomorrow as I won't have too much time to adapt her to it. And I really feel for you about weaning. And as we are all at the same boat, I hope you don't suffer too much and if you need a shoulder to cry on, please be welcome.    In my case, I still BF DD 1st and last thing and my guess is that I'm not producing enough milk for her first nursing session. At night, it's been two nights that she starts to bite my nipple because she lost patience to wait for the letdown.    Anyway, as you said, your goal was to reach 12 months and you did it, so congratulations. My first goal was 6 months, than 9 and now I have 10, so now I just need to wait for the moment to come. Big hugs to you!

Olga - you are right. What happened on sat night is that I didn't have the letdown. I could introduce another pumping session if I wanted to because I know my body would respond to it but the fact is that I really need to make some decision in my life. IMHO, BF is the most special way to show the purest love to someone and I really wanted to postpone weaning DD but it's not going to be a good decision when it regards to my relationship with DH.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for your MIL to het the visa this time! 

Munzle - Sorry I don't have experience on this. When DD was away from me during week days, I used to pump at lunchtime so that my body would produce milk for the weekend sessions. Since you don't have too many options, I would give it a go and try to feed her after those 2 days and see what happens. Hope you have success!

XOXO

Lidia

[campbellchick]

Hi Munzle, I also don't have much experience with this, but I would think that if it is only 2 sessions per week that you are missing, you should be okay.  If you start to do this and find any sort of dip in your supply, you could always take fenugreek to try to bring it back up again - eat oatmeal etc. etc. all the regular advice for trying to increase your supply. 

Lidia - YAY on your supply coming back in - that is fantastic.  Well, I thought we were officially done BF'ing dd, but I need to feed her when she wakes up this morning.  I thought I didn't have much milk left, but as I haven't fed her since yesterday morning (when she didn't eat much anyway), I can feel my boobs are quite full this morning.  So I guess I'll keep the morning feed for the next day or so and hope she is more interested if there is enough milk.  Holly also bites me when she either doesn't get a letdown or is running out of milk    They get mean when they are hungry don't they  .  But thank you for your offer of a shoulder to cry on  .  I may need it in the next day or two.  At least I am doing this now before we move house, daycare centers etc. in the next few weeks.  It is probably a better time than right in the middle of all that.  PS - can I be nosey and ask what you mean by BF'ing Milena affecting your relationship with your DH?  You really don't need to answer that if you don't want to though....

Had better go anyway, Holly has just woken up!

[mjkuebler]

I really just breast feed at night and force the lo to be on his own during the day.  Maybe that is why is is so grumpy.  I love breastfeeding though  My dd loves it too

[luvingjack]

This is my first post, I have been lurking and learned so much.  I am posting b/c I am torn over whether or not to continue bfing. 
I teach and have been pumping since October.  I had a lot of milk stored up in the freezer but my son hit a growth spurt and went through it all and we had to start formula.  I'm on vacation until the end of the month and going back and forth whether to continue to pump when i return, it is terribly difficult and cuts me off from my grade level team as well as accomplishing anything - as a teacher, you need every minute to prep. 
When i first went back I would get 6 oz in 15 min, at the end it was more like 3 to 4 oz in 25 min.  and to top it off my son went from 4 oz feeding to 8 oz feeding in the time I've been working.  It felt like the perfect storm of him increasing demand right when I was with him the least. 
I was totally ready to call it quits when after nursing in the am he would still take a 6oz bottle right after - I felt like I had no milk!  He often bobs on an off when nursing is very distractable, while on a bottle he goes full force.  It makes me wonder if I am even producing or if he is not patient with let down, so then for peace of mind I just offer a bottle, which probaby just perpetuate the problem - ugh!  Anyway, we had a check up today and doc said I need to increase solids in the am, that prob why he wants more milk.  I am trying to offer the breast at every feeding to increase supply, and then just follow with formula. 
Gosh - I am going on and on!  He is 7 months old so I feel okay about going to night time nursing only but I am afraid I will totally loose my milk.

Any advice or encouragement is welcome - thanks!

[campbellchick]

Hi there luvingjack - you sound like you are in the situation I was just in recently, but my dd is almost 12 months, so I felt okay to give up now - plus she lost total interest in my boob and much prefered the bottle as of just recently!  I have been in a similar situation to you at work, but I teach to adults, so I just didn't have the time to keep up the pumping this year.  We only have 15 min breaks morning and afternoon and I couldn't maintain my supply on just 1 pump a day at lunch-time.  But, if you want to continue BF'ing, it sounds as though you are doing the right thing with trying to get him to BF as much as possible, even if you are topping up afterwards.  Personally as much as I loved feeding dd, I felt a big stress keeping up the pumping - but it really depends on how you really feel about giving it up.  I definitely know if I had given up any earlier, I would have regretted it (know that from experience the first time around), so I was pleased to continue to pump until my intended goal of 12 months.  Do you think you would be able to maintain your supply with a morning and evening feed only?  Have you tried any supplements as yet to increase your supply (e.g. fenugreek, oatmeal etc.)?  I was just thinking if they work, then you may still be able to maintain your supply, taking supplements, with just 1 feed a day....

[olkan]

Hi luvingjack

My DD is also 7 mo and I have a very similar issue with her being really distracted at the breast and nursing really short time, but then taking a decent amount in the bottle. My guess to a big extent it's the bottle is easier to suckle and she's impatient to wait for the letdown (she nurses fine at night and for the bedtime when she's sleepy and calm). I however was lucky to end up being extremely efficient on pumping - strangely enough my milk supply dips when I'm just BFing, so I pump even on vacation a few times a day. So even though I tend top up nursing with the bottle with my BM (or often I'd pump out and give it to her in the bottle), I always check how much she takes in the bottle, and then pump out exact amount or more. I also keep pumping at 11 pm before going to bed, which gives me an extra 9 oz every day just in case.
As Kerri said above, it's really about how you feel about continuing or giving up. If you want to continue or gradually try to build your supply back, you could try:
- working on making pumping more efficient, learn to force a letdown and see how much you really produce.
- other way to get a peace of mind is to check wether your LO is actually swallowing and count it. They normally take 2-3 grams per swallow depending on the strength of your letdown (which you can see if you force one during pumping). Very often the issue is: they become lazy, they'd nurse only the initial letdown, and then if you don't empty the breast, your supply is going to be gradually dipping. The key to maintain it is to fully dry out the breast after the feed, so if my LO is not nursing well, I top up with the bottle, but I'd always then pump out whatever she has left in.
- get a smaller size teat for the bottle, my DD tends to nurse worse when she's on size 3, so I kept her on newborn size teat until 6 months, she really had to apply effort to suckle from the bottle and therefore was happy to be on the breast. Now she's on size 3, but if she starts going closer to nursing strike (and she does sometime), I put size 1 teat on the bottle, and after a few times she's back on breast happy.
- use weekends to increase the supply: you can pump fully before the feed and then feed from the bottle. If you LO ends up taking less then you pumped (which is your goal), that means you are producing more then he needs.
- add extra pumping session when you don't expect to BF for the next 3-4 hours. I tend to do it at night, even if she wakes at night and I just pumped everything out, she's normally happy to suckle long enough for the new milk to be produced. This really gets your supply up.
- maintain night feeds. I maintain 4:30 am night feed even though I know she she can easily drop it, I just know it really helps the supply.

But most importantly, do what you feel you will do happily or at least with understanding that you are doing the right thing. LOs do not need our sacrifice, they need a happy mom:)

[campbellchick]

Good advice Olga. 

You know what - you just reminded me of something too so thanks for that  . Now that I am finished BF'ing dd, I have forgotten to put her on a faster flow nipple.  she is still on a size one  .  Oops, so glad you mentioned it - I think I'll put her on a size 3 now and she'll finish her bottles a lot faster 

[lidiayy]

Olga, you said it all... The last paragraph shows that you have found the secret to keep nursing your LO.  ;)Confidence is the key to have a letdown, to show your LO that he/she can be comfortable to nurse as much as he/she wants, it's a virtuous cycle! The more you express, the more confident you become, then you can face LOs nurse strike or distraction without affecting your milk supply!

Kerrie - didn't understand... So Holly really quit or you're still BFing her in the morning?

Good luck luvingjack. I hope you find a way that suits both your LO and you. In my case, when DD was 7 - 8 mo, she had my milk 3 times a day (2 nursing sessions and one bottle at midday) and it was when I got my biggest output. I think it only dropped because I caught a tummy bug and lost 2 kg. Stayed in bed for 2 days. At that moment, I could get around 3 Oz per side, after being sick, it dropped to half the amount.   

Hope you all have a nice weekend.
xo
Lidia

 

[campbellchick]

Hi Lidia, we are done with Bf'ing altogether now  .  I also had a tummy bug last weekend and lost 3kg in 3 days, and consequently I think my milk dropped big time, so that is when I decided we were over it.  Holly is far more interested in the bottle than my boobs these days anyway.  So far, it has been 3 days since no bf'ing and she doesn't seem to miss it at all.  I had to bf her a few more times earlier in the week just to the milk out, but since then I haven't had to pump or anything.  I mustn't have had much milk left  .  It's all a bit sad, but overall I am happy we made it this far 

[clh]

{{hugs}} Kerrie.  I know weaning for whatever reason is a bittersweet time, but I'm glad Holly is handling the transition well.  & that overall you're happy.

[campbellchick]

Thanks Candice - Holly seems escatic with her bottles, so that makes me feel a lot better (but a big dejected too ).  I have still been really sick lately, so am happy that I weaned as I really think I would have been struggling with my milk.

Anyway, hope you are doing well and feeling well too 

[olkan]

Hi Lidia,

Are you really saying July 28??? It's just seems like a bit early planning for July unless it's a typo.
Couple of points - I noted that once you reduce the number of pumps, the supply falls gradually within a few days, so I wouldn't that worry about engorgement - at least for me it's never been more than 1 day and then the body adapts. Plus I've always felt safer overpumping (I still pump out 8 oz more a day than my baby consumes and it's relaxing to know I always have a backup). So if at some point you would have to go from 10 & 5 pumps to just one pump at 11:30, your body should adapt, but I think overall supply will dip. That said, your baby will probably be consuming less anyway by then.
Other thing that I found useful in terms of scheduling the pumps is pumping slightly before when I normally would feed. For example, I need to pump at 11 and 3 to replace the missed feeds, instead I pump at 9 right before work and then 1:30-2:00 - so only one pump at work, and then I get more milk between 2 and 7 pm (as I'd normally have less milk coming in the afternoon, this extra hour helps to ride it out for me as my DD does love to eat A LOT in the afternoon and little in the morning.
I then keep Friday, Saturday DF pumps to cover for Monday and then back on track.

Hope this helps, wish your daycare adaptation goes smoothly and you both enjoy it!