Author Topic: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track  (Read 24515 times)

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Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« on: December 04, 2009, 15:37:03 pm »
Laura, my friend asked about the ears too.  I am not sure tbh.  He is happy atm and doesn't seem uncomfortable.  Wouldn't it be worse if he did have an infection?

Dark - Thank you so much for checking in.  To answer your questions, we have never had a great sleeper.  He always seemed on the low end of sleep needs.  For example, before this 2-1 nonsense started he was sleeping 11 hours at night and taking 2 - 1 hour naps during the day.  He was rested and happy on this.  No matter what I did, I couldn't extend the nap.  At about 11 months, everything changed and he refused naps left and right.  He put himself on 1 nap.  Then we digressed he got wicked OT and we got into a nice rhythm for a month or so where he was taking a 30 minute nap in the morning and then a 2nd nap.  That was during the summer and it was nice and smooth for a few months.  Although, looking back, I realize now that I let him sleep too much during the day.  We were getting about 3 hours sleep during the day and 10 hours at night.  At that time, he went to bed at 8 and woke at 6.  But as it always does, things went haywire again and it got to the point where he refused a nap with even a 15 minute nap in the morning.  That is when we got into a horrible OT cycle that Mashi helped us out of.  Now nights are the best they have ever been, but naps are horrible.  I can't find the right A to get a good nap.

As for the NW, he wasn't screaming.  He was moaning in his sleep until he finally woke and started crying.  He was standing, so I knew that he wasn't just going to lay back down.  So I gave pain meds and snuggled for a few until he settled and he went to sleep and didn't stir until morning.  He doesn't have his molars or his canines and his gums all the way around are swollen and red.  Last night when he was miserable, we were trying to get a look in his mouth and we just can't see what is coming through.  I was medicating a lot for naps and sleep, but have since stopped since I didn't know if it was necessary or helping.  The only reason I did last night, is because of how the night went before bed.  He is normally not like that.  He has also had a cold, which seems to be easing up.  But for a few nights he was waking in the middle of the night coughing or so stuffy that he couldn't sleep.  

About today, he woke at 6:15 and I was planning on putting him down at 11:30.  I have no rhyme or reason for that.  When Mashi was helping me and we got 12 hour nights, we got a few good naps on 5.5 hour A's.  But since then, we haven't been able to replicate them.  I am definitely open to ideas!
Kara


Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 16:35:38 pm »
Here I am back at nap time with a screaming toddler.  I really need to know what I am doing wrong here.  The second I say it is time to take a nap, he starts stomping his feet and crying.  I get him out of the crankiness with music while I am changing his diaper and then the second I turn off the light, he starts freaking out.  As I have said before WI/WO turns him into a complete lunatic, so I am sitting here in the door way saying in a quiet voice over and over "it is ok - it is time to go to sleep."  OK, as I am writing this, he has stopped crying, but he is not laying down.  He is pacing.  It is 11:35 and he woke at 6:15 this morning, so I can't imagine it is  UT.   Also, I really don't think it is OT either.
Kara


Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 16:42:04 pm »
Of course as soon as I write that, he lays down and goes to sleep.......
Kara


Offline Mashi

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 16:47:00 pm »
What is your winddown like for naps Kara?  Could he need more? Less? 

Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 19:21:02 pm »
Our wind down has never been long, but it has worked.  Maybe I need to change it?  We pretty much just go to his room, do a diaper change, read a quick story and bed.  But the past 2 days, I mention the word nap and he starts pitching a fit.

We got a 1 hour 45 minute nap today.  Not too bad.
Kara


Offline deckchariot

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 19:31:55 pm »
First off - that's a fabulous nap!!! 

Thanks so much for the helpful summary - I'm wondering if it would be ok if I split off the last few posts and started a new thread with them?  You've summed up things nicely, and I'm thinking if the thread was shorter, we might get some new eyes jumping in, which is always helpful.  But I wanted to check with you first.

About how long did it take him to go to sleep with you sitting outside the room?  I think that was a tremendous approach btw.  I'm wondering if it might be something developmental and/or some SA coming off of the massive OT (and I know you did some APing to help get over that, which is fine, don't worry about that).  You've mentioned that he's just about walking - and that can seriously mess with sleep.

Generally, when bubs are on one nap, 5.5 hrs on either side of the nap is about "average", so I think that was a great place to start, now that he seems to be over the OT.  Mashi's idea of doing a bit longer wind down might really help, especially since he's freaking out over even the mention of "nap".  If the music calms him down, could you just take some time in his room to "dance" and sing to some of his favorite songs, then diaper change, then books, then bed?  You may need to sit outside his room for a bit doing exactly what you were doing - it's not wi/wo entirely, but more like the last step of gradual withdrawal - and it tends to work well with SA.  Just keep repeating the same phrase and keep it as uninteresting (but comforting) as possible.

Are you aiming for a 7ish bedtime then (I'm guessing he woke around 1:30?)?

michelle
Michelle




Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 21:48:44 pm »
Thanks Michelle!! Yes, you can start a new thread or do you need me to?

I was going to go for a 5 hour A after the nap, only because that is what I have been doing.  If you think aiming for a 7 pm bed is better, then I will do that.  Yes, he woke at 1:25.

I will try a longer wind down for the nap tomorrow.  For some reason, we don't have the same issues at bedtime.  Yesterday, I was outside the room for at least 15 minutes.  Today it was less than 5 minutes.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 22:37:41 pm by mmom »
Kara


Offline deckchariot

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Re: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2009, 05:22:21 am »
welcome to your new thread :)  How did bedtime go?  Was the 15 min bit for nap or bedtime?  I do think staying outside only less than 15 min is great.  It really looks to me like you're headed in the right direction.  We'll see what the weekend brings!
Michelle




Offline Mashi

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Re: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 07:29:27 am »
Kara I would have said that last night is the first night you could push to that 7pm bedtime and to go for it.  Thinking of you today and hope that it went well. x

Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 11:17:51 am »
Michelle - The 15 minutes was nap.  We never have problems with bedtime.

We had an EW this morning.  It seems it happens every other day now.  My LO woke at 5 and by 5:15 he was yelling for me.  I went in and put teething gel on him and laid with him for a while.  He did not go back to sleep and actually got really agitated about being stuck there.  I still ssshhhed him until 6, but it wasn't a calm morning like others.  I don't get it.  We did a 7 pm bedtime, but he wasn't OT or anything.
Kara


Offline babybarr

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Re: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 17:22:39 pm »
We often get one good day and night then an EW the following and that usually indicates for us OT caught up on and need to get back to the "old" routine before the cathing up on sleep..

LAURA xx




Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 17:35:42 pm »
Thanks Laura.  Unfortunately, today was more of the same for the nap.  Even though he woke at 5, we were pushing for a nap at 11.  Dh said he cried for 20 minutes going down.  I am sure some of it was OT, but it is still odd that he only does this at nap time.
Kara


Offline Mashi

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Re: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 17:46:17 pm »
Is he spirited?  I know my DS often freaks at nap time....it's the whole "not leaving the fun behind" attitude in him.  One thing that has helped is a set sequence of events in the hour before his nap. NOt a "wind down" but an order of things....we have a snack, we change his nappy, we clean up some toys, have some low key toys like colouring or signing books, then do pyjamas (he wears jammies for his naps as well!) while playing (so half the time I have to chase him and/or do pjs in spurts, part of the game I suppose!) and THEN we start wind down.  I let wind down be as long or short as it needs to be. Meaning, if I suspect or plan for his nap to be at 1130 then I would sit on the couch with his sleeping bag and stories and get ready for wind down at 1115, for a 15 minute quiet time. But, sometimes we end up sitting there until 1135, 1140, etc becuase I can just tell that he is not ready. Other days I might ffwd through a short book and race into his room before 1120 because I can tell he's ready for his sleep NOW.

HTH??

Offline mmom

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Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 19:19:26 pm »
He is definitely spirited when it comes to sleep.   He is a real mixture in every other aspect.  We will try something like that for naps.  He only slept 1.5 hours.  I should probably do a 5 hour A on that right?  Not 5.5?
Kara


Offline Mashi

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Re: Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2009, 20:20:36 pm »
I think that 1.5 hours is a good nap for him, isn't it?  It might be worth the push to 5.5...we have tried 5h after a 1/5 hour nap before (I think?) and it didn't get us much further ahead.... why not push if you can without OT creeping in.