Re: sleeping less and less - 16 mo off track

[*Becky*]

Kara - hugs. That is really tough and being pregnant too...
My lo is also low sleep needs. I am actually high sleep needs which is why I struggle so much. My Easy routines have also never been what they are 'supposed' to be either. He has never slept the normal amount for his age.
At the moment he does 11-12 hours at night and on a very good nap day we get close to 2 hours and on a normal nap day we get 1.5. That is low for his age and I know that but like you I think we do have to accept this as part of who they are. I agree with Mashi in that I think there are probably a lot of people who do not get enough sleep which is why I am constantly trying to tweak his routine and ensure he does get the sleep he needs. I don't have the answer for you I am afraid but I will be reading along as I am sure someone will. It does sound like now he may be a little OT. Because he woke early today do you think you could get 2 naps in or would that mess it all up more? Just thinking that maybe you could do a v short one and then a longer later???

[mmom]

It is big fun isn't it?  Two naps have been disastrous lately, which is why I avoided it.  He typically rejects the 2nd nap, leaving a long A time until bed.  DH is putting him down right now and it is 10:40.  However, if he only sleeps for 40 minutes again today, I will try and AP a 2nd nap out of him.  He is just so darn frustrating when it comes to sleep.

[babybarr]

Let us know how you go.  I guess you just need one longish nap to get back on track and then I guess if necessary you are going to have to wake him in the morning to ensure he doesn't use all his sleep up at night.  What would be your ideal?  11hr night and 1.5hr nap?  Maybe you could devise a perfect routine for him and see if by riding out a few days of OT he'll stick to fixed nap / bedtimes?  I know it's really hard, yesterday DS slept 20mins at lunch and woke himself coughing, I then drove for ages in the afternoon just to get another 20mins!  And being pregnant I really don't know how you are doing it.  I get so frustrated too so you're definitely not alone there!

[mmom]

Laura, your situation is so much harder because your LO is sick.  That makes things way worse!!

My LO slept 1.5 hours, which is a huge improvement from the last few days.  But I am sure it is only because he was exhausted.  Now my next issue is he woke at 12:30.  Which a 6 hour A before the nap, i would probably want a 5 hour A after.  However, that puts me at 5:30, which is early.  At the same time, he has been OT, so maybe that is necessary?

Laura, I have contemplated set nap/bed times, that is why I asked other moms about it.  It seems as if there are only a few success stories though, which is why I am hesitant.

[Mashi]

Kara I get 5.5 hours after any nap that was not OT. So if it is a 1.5 hour, a 1.75h or a 2 hour nap, I need to go 5.5 hours after.  Mind you, I have never tried 6h of A before the nap so I am not sure.  But if you are thinking that your DS only needs 12.5 hours of sleep in a day to be rested and happy, that means he needs 11.5 hours awake-- which is your 6h A and 5.5h A. 

I think that if you don't attempt to push it out a bit, you'll get stuck in this forever. 

At the same time, I don't want to tell you to hold of until 6pm and then get you into another OT loop with a 4am wake! 

[mmom]

I think you are right.  I will go to 6 and see how he sleeps tonight.  Hopefully, we get a decent night.  Thanks for all of your help!!

[babybarr]

We have had success with fixed nap times and bedtimes.  For a period of time anyway and then he needs the nap pushed back.  We had the best success when he went to 2 naps.  He NEVER napped well until we did fixed times.  Then it all went wrong with one nap!!  DS has to have a strict routine though because he is so spirited and gets sick so often.  It't the only thing that has ever helped keep us even a little bit on track.  HOWEVER - I know DS really is quite far removed from the "norm"!!!!

We've never done earlier than 6pm bedtime and our nap never really varies by half an hour either way.  I used to go by A times (changed nap depending on wakeup) but just found I couldn't plan my days very well KWIM?

[mmom]

Laura, if the short naps continue, I will have to do set bed times or nap times or both.  I am not sure.

Well, my LO had a hard time falling asleep last night.  He was in bed at 5:45 and didn't fall asleep until 6:30.  He wasn't crying - just rolling around.  So it was a 6 hour A in the morning and a 6 hour A after the nap.  At 5 this morning he sprang to life.  I was so tired and was like "nooooooo!!!" and I turned down the monitor so I could only hear him if he yelled for me.  Actually, I did that at 5:30 because I couldn't take it anymore.  At this point, he was standing, but just babbling.  At 6:30, I heard DH get up and I jumped up thinking we let our LO scream all morning.  But he had fallen back asleep!!!  He didn't wake again until 7:05 this morning.  OMG, I didn't know what to do with myself.  I am planning on doing a 6 hour A again and having him go down at 1 is bizarre for me.  I should still do that right? 

[Mashi]

Hoping you're onto something Kara!!!!!!!!!!

[mmom]

Me too!! At least if he refuses a nap or does a short nap, the nap is later in the day.  Although, this is how we repeat the cycle.  My LO will get a later start and I think that this will be the day that we push things back, then he refuses to nap and it is early to bed.

[mmom]

I am wondering if a 6 hour A is the way to go considering he is used to napping around 11/11:30.  Plus, if he does nap, a 1 pm nap would mean a bed time of 7:30/8 and you know he is not going to sleep until 7 tomorrow.  So I would probably get an EW.  What is a good idea here?

[Mashi]

I always found that if DS woke early and chatted himself back to sleep, I could NOT use the wake up time as a true time for counting A time.  Mind you, this was when he was in the 9-11 months range, but if he woke at 5, then slept say 545 till 700, I could not count 700 as wake up time....mainly because the whole reason he woke at 5 was OT in the first place. So the first A time was shorter than I expected it to be.  I wasn't ever able to come up with a "formula" for knowing what the A time was, I always had to wing it. 

I suppose I would try for 1200/1230 Kara...it's sort of split in the middle. Even if he takes a short nap you will still only have 5 h to bedtime....

[mmom]

The point you are making is exactly what I was worried about/thinking.  It is 11:40 and my LO looks tired.  We just had some quiet time and I am thinking I will shoot between 12/12:30.  He doesn't have much of an appetite and won't eat much and i am worried that he will not eat and wake hungry.  But his appetite has been like this for the last few days.

[mmom]

Yay - 2 hour nap!! Now what do I do about bedtime?   A 5.5 hour A would be 7:45. But that is awfully late for a LO who has been going to bed at 6 and will probably wake at 6.

[babybarr]

Brilliant news!!  I think hunger plays less of a part in waking now, I guess a bit like us adults - we don't tend to wake if we're hungry.

What A time did you use this morning? Fingers crossed things start falling into place.  When DS is feeling better we're going for a longer A time now too.  Like you said at least that way with a short nap then it'll be later in the day.