Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 4

[scucci1979]

we have an OT lo here. Woke up 30min into her nap. Settled quickly! Should of reduced her A time this morning. I also, thing we are teething.

[clairebear79]

Sabs - hope she did a decent nap after her 30min WU?  What A time did she do?  Are you just trying to keep her nap around 12 midday or after a set amount of A time?   

Today we have done another 1 nap day:

Wake: 6.10
Nap:  11.05 - 1.20 (he woke crying after 1h 15 but settled back to sleep in a few mins.  Woke himself after 2h 15 but was pretty grumpy)
BT:    7.00

I am a bit concerned he is building up some OT, esp with the WU during his nap - he's been blowing raspberries all day & was making 'mmmm mmmmm ooooh ooooh' sounds while playing (almost like a mantra) & so I do think he is pretty tired.  We went out this afternoon & after just 2hrs A time he had 10mins or so in the pushchair where he went all quiet & still & had a glazed look in his eyes, but I don't think he actually went to sleep.  If he did it was only for a matter of seconds or a minute at most.  He then sprung back to life & played pretty happily til BT.

I'm also worried we pushed BT too late - what do you all think? 

DH thinks he isn't ready for 1 nap yet & that we should go back to 2.  Its so tricky to know what to do for the best.  He certainly seemed better rested on 2 naps (I guess b/c his A times arent so long) but it was getting increasingly difficult to get him down for both of them. Maybe I should just have tried cutting back his AM nap to 30mins first.    However I go back to work in 4 weeks & it would be so much easier for me & other caregivers if he were on 1 nap, AND I almost want it for the consistency it will give him.  I also wonder if I just need to be prepared to accept a bit of OT while he adjusts?

[scucci1979]

When he went down, did he fight you?Fingers crossed for a decent wu time tomorrow for you. Claire, you can always do one day one nap and the next day a two nap day. That is what I did with DD1. Then again, she was a textbook baby. You do have to be prepared for some OT as they need to adjust.

 For the last two days we have been having some bt resistance. A is normally 5.5hours after her nap, but over the last two days she has been doing close to 6hours. 3-min are in her crib, blowing raspberries and making funny noises. I have a feeling that molars are causing all this.
Have you ladies experienced any of this at bt?  I don't know if this is just OT causing it. She never fights bt.    I normally count A time from the moment she wakes up. it averages from 5-5.5hours. She has been giving me great wu times over the past month until this morning when it was just past 6am.

here is our day.
wu 6:15am got her out at 6:30am
nap 11:40-1:50pm (woke up at the 30min mark)
in bed at 7:20pm. Looked like she was going to fall asleep but then fussed, moaned, chatted and moaned again until 7:50pm That is a 6hr A time. 

do you think teeth? I am giving her pain meds. I think I should try giving them a little earlier before bed.

[lulunut]

Clairbear-you maybe surprised to find that when you go back to work he will fall into the 1 nap routine at daycare or where ever he goes.  They sometimes do better in other situations with other people.  If they are kept really busy they will just do one nap naturally.

Sabs-I often get that with OS which is by that time OT too!!  Sorry I am no help!!

[scucci1979]

yup! OT and OS.  Waking at 4:30am. Took me one hour to settle her back down.

[emily3434]

I just found this!  now that we are 1...I guess we are a toddler!

we could really use your advise....

DS just turned 1 a few days ago.  for the last 2-3 months he has been on a consistent routine of the following:

7:30 wake up
10:30ish nap (sometimes falling alsleep closer to 10:45) - sleeps 40-50 min ( I was waking)
2:45 up for nap - I let him sleep as long as he wants for this nap - usually about 1 hour 10 min. sometimes 1.5 hours.
BT between 7:30-8

has been STTN beautifully.

the last week he has multiple night wakings (although he has been able to resettle himself) usually 1 around 11:30ish, then again at 5:30 and he will wake on and off until 7:30.  I do not believe this is related to teething.

I feel like I need to change naps...but he is getting sooo OT!!  I was thinking to move back the am nap a little, and keep it nice and short.  isn't it the AM nap that robs night time sleep??  what about that pm nap??  he usually doesn't sleep past 4 pm, so he is getting 3.5-4 hours before bed.  he really can't last longer than that.  in the morning, he was doing 3 hours, but was really ready for sleep at that point.  he is so suseptable to being OT I am dreading that.  yesterday I let him sleep as long as he wanted for both naps to catch up, but of course I only got a 1 hour nap both times .

any idea what is causing these wake ups?

I am 5 months pregnant with #2 - they will need to share a room.  I am dreading that...

[clairebear79]

Hi Emily - welcome to the 2-1!   I wonder if he is in a bit of an UT/OT loop.  Looks like his A times are increasing as he isn't settling to sleep until 10.45, and his PM nap is getting shorter.  This could be leading to him being a little OT by BT leading to NW, OR the NW & EW could themselves be due to him needing some extra A.  So it may be time to cut his AM nap back a little further - how about trying a 30min AM nap?  You could maybe start it at 10.30 as you do now, or 10.45 if you feel he is consistently needing that extra 15mins A time.  His 2nd A time after a 40-50min nap is around 3.5hrs right?  Maybe try shortening that to 3hrs max & see what you get for your PM nap.  He should ideally sleep a little longer, meaning he can handle the A to BT without getting OT.  So something like:

Wake: 7:30
Nap:   10:45 - 11:15
Nap:    2:15 - 3:45/4pm
BT:     7:30 - 8

What do you think?


Ladies - we did 1 nap days for the last 3 days & last night DS woke crying at 10pm ish & then woke at 5.38am this morning, chattered til 5.55am, back to sleep til 6.30am when he was up for the day.  I don't know why we are suddenly getting wakeups in the early morning again - any thoughts???  Its happened twice in the last 3 days.  I don't mind so much as he is going back to sleep at least, but since our EW improved he hasn't been doing this until now.  Could it be OT from his 1 nap days OT???

This morning he had huge big bags under his eyes & was constantly raspberry blowing, again. By 9.30am he looked really tired - started to lose coordination & kept burying his head into my leg, but he was playing happily.  So I wasn't sure if he was quite tired enough or already past the point & OT.  Decided there & then to do a 2 nap day:

NW:     5.38 - 5.55am  (chattered for a while)
Wake:  6.30am
Nap:    9.55 - 10.30   (PD at 9.35am - after 10mins went quiet, then suddenly revved up again chatting & shouting & playing.  He woke up himself after 35mins happy & chatty - UT )
Nap:    2.00 - 3.15     (PD at 1.30pm.  chattered/fussed til 2pm. Woke after 40mins crying/fussing, back to sleep.  Woke up himself after 1h 15)
BT:      7.00pm

So he did 3.5hrs A after a 35min nap today.  And only slept 1.25hrs.  To me that seems crazy.  I'm not sure if he was just OT from him short napping this AM, but then if he was really all that shattered he'd have fallen asleep in the car on the way home from our outing, right??? 

Anyhow he played happily all afternoon, BT at usual time & he settled to sleep ok.  But has just woken crying 1hr after he fell asleep.

So.... I'm now feeling a bit lost as to whether O was OT this morning from doing 3x 1 nap days & the AM nap was OT, as was the PM nap, OR if he was actually UT for the AM nap & so this led to OT later in the day.  I need to figure this out b/c I am not sure if he's just trying to tell us he wants to be on 1 nap for good.  When we PD for his AM nap & he was shouting away, we both agreed that although he looked tired, it didn't sound like he was tired up there.  So 3.5hrs AM A time is likely too short (unless of course I'm totally wrong & he was OT).  However, I DO think 5hrs A is just too much for him at the moment & this may be why we are getting the crying after BT all of a sudden. 

Trouble is, there's nowhere else to go is there?  He will usually settle reasonably well after 4hrs A, but its not a long enough A time for us to do a 1 nap day.  If we do long AM nap after 4hrs A he'll likely refuse a PM nap & be OT at BT (already tried & tested ).  And there's not enough time in a 12hr day to do short AM/long PM with a 4hr 1st A time - is there   So it seems there really is no option but 1 nap left   What do you all think?

I think I am struggling with it b/c we still have a bit of an early start - 6.30am is typical for O these days (never thought I would say that LOL!!!  ) .  I think his ideal AM A time for a 1 nap day is 4.75hrs, as so far this has given the longest nap.  So this would be nap starting at 11.15am.  If he sleeps 2-2.5hrs, nap will finish 1.15 - 1.45pm.  If we do a 1 nap day he tends to sleep 11.5hrs overnight (if we are lucky) so I'd need to keep BT at 7pm in order to preserve our 6.30am WU.  But this makes his A time to BT 5.25-5.75hrs which I'm worried is a little too long - what do you think???  Should I be doing an earlier BT of say 6.30pm???  Am just worried about our WU creeping earlier again - its taken sooo long to get where we are, plus every time I look at O I see his huge bags under his eyes & can't help but feel he is utterly tired out.  Maybe cause he's had so many months of no routine/ chopping & changing.  I really need to give him some consistency now.

[scucci1979]

Claire, I dont' know! I am still trying to figure that out myself. Alyssa does the same last A time as Oliver. Today I had her down in her crib for bed at 7:25pm and she didn't fall asleep until 7:40pm. That was an A of 5hrs and 50min. She never does this much! Thinking I may try earlier tomorrow. I have noticed that with a longer first A(lets say over 5hrs, closer to 5.5hrs) her last A is a little shorter. I guess b/c her nap always has to be extended. Today, her A in the morning was 5hrs and she gave me a 1hr and 50min nap(no extension) Then come bt, she chatted for a while. Could it be that she needs a longer last A time b/c of the shorter first A? I am blaming teeth.

[emily3434]

Clare-yes, I do believe we are on a loop from the night wakings. Things were do good the last few months!!! If I cut the am nap ( like when we have appointments) he will take a long pm nap - usually 3hours later. Do I know thus works.

My big question is: How late is too late for that pm nap to interfere with night sleep??? He can do 3.5 in the pm after a 1+ hr nap, occasionally 4 if we are out. I just don't think his a times are up for the 1 nap yet...

[clairebear79]

I would say if you got a 2hr PM nap & your PM A time was less than 4hrs you'd probably be looking at either BT resistance or EW.  But its so hard to say - its so individual to each LO & what they can handle.

Ladies we are back on 1 nap again today.  O woke at 6.30am & we have a family meal this pm so he has no choice but 1 nap.  Same for all this week as he has his induction at nursery every morning so no choice but 1 nap.  However, he looks shattered & was clearly ready for bed by 10am today.  Siigh.  I guess a full week of 1 nap days may tell us if he really IS ready.

[scucci1979]

way to go O.

I do agree with Claire, that with a 2hr nap and an A less then 4hrs, would probably lead to ew or bt resistance. Then again, it is all trial and error. These kids have a mind of there own.


So Alyssa woke up at 6:15am, got her back down until 7am. Put her down for her nap at 12:15pm then woke up 1hr and 20min into her nap. Was able to settle. I just don't understand why she is chatting up a storm before bt.  Normally she goes down like a breeze with an A of 5.5hours.Going to try an earlier wind down. I think she just gets too OS by her sister. You have to see them play on my bed before bt. They laugh and giggle.

[clairebear79]

Sabs - I typed a reply to you earlier & I think its got lost in cyber space  Was just going to say cute new picture of the girls!!!  Madi's hair is beautiful!  Also great that you got such a good nap with no extending yesterday with a 5hr A time.  I see she woke up mid-nap again today - do you think it could be that extra 15mins thats doing it?

Ladies we did 1 nap day today & I PD at 5hrs A time & O woke at 1.5hrs crying & would not resettle.  I think this was OT as he looked pretty tired at 10am ish this morning.  Siigh.  BT was 6.30pm.  I suspect we will have a 6am start tomorrow.

Trouble is, if we go back to 2 naps he will be fine for a few days & then it'll be back to nap struggles again when he gets caught up.  Deep down, I know we need to do it but I don't feel he's quite ready.  We're stuck somewhere in the middle where 2 naps is too much & 1 nap isn't enough.

[scucci1979]

I think the 15mins might be doing that. She shows no tired signs so I have to go by the clock. Funny thing, tonight she went down like a breeze.    She is going stair crazy ATM-wanting to climb the stairs all the time.

Claire, don't worry if you have to fit in a two nap day here and there. When Alyssa gives me a nap that is only 1.5hours, I normally AP a 10min CN then do bt the same.

You never know, he may surprise you.

[scucci1979]

WE haven't had an ew in a very long time. A woke up at 5:30am. thinking teeth. I should of medicated her then but just rocked her a bit and put her back down.  Madison woke up at 6am and decided to storm open A's room door. This of course woke her up and she didn't go back to sleep.

Looks like it is going to be an early nap today. thinking 11:30am. 
Here is yesterday
wake 7am
nap 12:15-2:30pm
bed and asleep at 7:45pm

do you think there wasn't enough A time to bed? She normally does 5.5hours.

[clairebear79]

Sabs - I wouldn't have though 15mins less A time could make that much difference to her WU - especially given she is doing over 5hrs A time in the AM too.  Maybe it was her teeth.  Is it molars coming?

O had a brief cry at 10.50pm last night & then woke for the day at 6.15am.  11h 45 sleep.  Phew!  I honestly think he needed a 2 nap day today, he started rubbing his eyes at 9am & again in the car on the way to his grandparents, but when we got there he perked right up, so although my gut said 2 naps - I told MIL to do 1 nap & have him down for 11.15/30am.  Last week she really struggled to get him down for 2 naps & TBH I struggled 2 days ago - so it seemed like the best option.  I'm really hoping its a good one or he's gonna be exhausted by the end of the week!