Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 4

[scucci1979]

so got a one hour nap from 12:30-1:30pm and she woke up screaming and not wanting to go back. I think she couldn't settle. S**t. I don't know what to do now. Aim for a 5min Cn with a 7:15pm bt or just do a bt at 7pm.

[clairebear79]

Sabs - WRT bottle before nap - so long as she's going down drowsy but awake I think you are ok.  I'd try a short drive mid afternoon & see if she'll have a short nap.  Failing that I'd probably do EBT.  She will be OK. 

Kim - would your LO actually go down any earlier than 10.30am?  if you are aiming for a long PM nap, you would probably need the AM nap a bit earlier in the day TBH.  Maybe more like 10am?  & then wake after 30mins & then aim for PM nap 2.5-3hrs later so 1/1.30pm ish.  Then hopefully he should sleep a good 1.5hrs, ideally no less.  Then you have around 3.5-4hrs A after the nap to BT at 6.30/7pm.  I think ATM the gap between your naps is a bit too big & he's a gotten bit OT.  If he won't go down earlier for the AM nap, I'd certainly just try bringing the PM nap earlier so it starts between 1.30-2pm & see if that helps to extend it.

Cyndie - oh what a conundrum with your DD's school hours.  I really don't know what to suggest.  Maybe like you say, push out & cut back that AM nap a touch more & get him down as soon as you get home from school drop off for his PM nap so you can get the maximum amouont of sleep into him as you can.

Ladies, we're still (trying to) sticking out the 1 nap days but the last few have been a bit messy b/c DS is poorly with sickness, runny nose & fever.  Not sure if its a bug or the after effects of his vaccinations.  Yesterday, after a truly awful night of screaming, he napped 1h 50 & then also took a short 10min CN at around 4.30pm, BT 7pm.  Today was a complete write off:

Wake:  6.30am
Nap:   11.15am - 12pm  (woke after 1 sleep cycle chatting & happy in his cot.  Left him for 40mins to see if he'd resettle.  Nope - he had a dirty nappy & once changed, nap was well & truly over)
Nap:    1.30 - 2pm     (in car on way to my mums - clearly shattered from short nap.  Woke when the engine stopped)
CN:      4.20 - 4.40pm (in car on way home from mums - he'd been rubbing his eyes since 3.45pm)
BT:     6.30, asleep 6.45pm

So, we are just muddling along as best as we can.  We started off with set nap at 11am (which was 5hrs A) but his WU has gotten a little later in the last 2 days meaning the A time shortened to 4.5hrs.  After a couple of days of shorter naps I decided to nudge the nap out a little later to 11.15am (4.75hrs) as 5hrs A seems to be a touch too far just yet.  I'm hoping that once he's feeling better things will settle down.

Oh ladies, also wanted to ask if anyones got advice on this:  DS seems to have a poop most days just before 12midday, which unfortunately now lands right in the middle of his nap.  It is disrupting his nap almost every day & I really don't know what to do about it.  Any ideas how I can get him to poop at a different time of day?!  As once he's up, its a real struggle (impossible really) to get him back down, & I think this is what's causing a lot of our nap troubles.

[scucci1979]

CN failed in the car. I normally take her for a stroller walk but it was raining so hard.  In bed and asleep by 7:05pm. I put her down and of course she stood up quickly to look at me. I left and she fussed for one second.  I hope she catches up tonight.

Oh Claire, I hate it when they are sick. A gets sick all the time b/c of Madi. It really sucks.  Hope he feels better soon.
As for the poopy diaper. What are you feeding him the am? Any new foods in the evening?  I have no idea on how to change the time of poop. A does it in the am and pm. A few nights she has done it when I put her down for bed.  I wish I new. The only thing I can think of is what he is eating the night before and in the morning.

[newmama12]

Sabs, I have never tried a 1 nap day. It's quite difficult (at least now) with him waking so early in the AM and my dd's school schedule 3 days/week. I would never be able to keep him awake until we got back from dropping dd off at school. We are typically back around 12:45 and I take him right upstairs to his room. He's usually asleep within minutes and I wake him (usually) at 2:30 or so. I think, if I was to try 1 nap he would need to go down around 11 or so. Since we have to leave at 12:15 MWF, that will not work. He would fall asleep in the car if I kept him up. And we all know what happens then - no nap when we get home!
I wonder if I can try 1 nap days on days when she's not in school?! Then MWF stick with the 20 minute AM, then the 2nd nap when we get back from dropping her off. That could work. Ideally, a 1 nap/day at 12:45-2:30 (on days when she's in school) would be awesome. I just need him to be able to stay up from 6am until 12:50 or to sleep in later than 6am!

[scucci1979]

I doubt he will stay up that long. I would try days that you are home first, b/c 6am to about 1pm is very long for him.  I would stick with the 20min naps on those days and move his pm nap a little earlier. Once you are on one nap, I think he will sleep in more. YWKIM? I can only imagine how difficult it is for you.   How long do you think he can stay up for? I mean, what is the longest A he has done? I wouldn't push the one nap cold turkey, just yet. You need to slowly cut that am nap out and move the pm nap earlier.

OMG ladies, I know what I did wrong. Alyssa was asleep by 7pm. Woke up at 4am so I gave her Tylenol and a hug. She didn't fall back asleep until 5am.  Then from 5-7 she woke up every 40mins. I think she wants cuddles b/c when I pick her up she will make herself cozy on me and go back to sleep. The moment I put her back down she would cry-like an offended cry.  Anyhow, I had to do pu with a pat on her bum to settle her. sigh. do you ladies suspect this 4am wu is an EW? She only napped for one hour yesterday and I couldn't get a cn out of her. Mind you she was in such great spirits last night. She is so spirited when it comes to sleep.
I feel so down today b/c just when things were going well with her, this starts.  I think it is molars.

[KIMMCGOWAN]

Brilliant, Clairebear... thats what my instinct was telling me (earlier am nap to make roo m for long pm one) but just didn't trust it! Doh! Should listen to that voice. I agree about getting overtired too.

Had a ridiculous 5.15am wake this morning as he got stuck in his cot the wrong way round and wouldn't go back to sleep. But then amazingly he has caught up with 1hr 45min (had to wake him for lunch) and another 45min nap. Trying to be true to BW and watch his cues more, and then he won't get overtired.

BEst of luck everyone with the continued transition! Am going for the earlier nap tomorrow! Thansk again.

[clairebear79]

Good luck Kim

Sabs - how are things going?  Hope A is feeling a bit happier now.

Been a hectic few days here - Oliver was poorly again, & I returned to work yesterday too. We've had a hard time sticking with our 1 nap plan as he has been short napping & we were having to resort to driving him around trying to get CN's out of him.  The last 2 days he is still incredibly tired, & has woken early due to being OT, but we've kept him to his nap at 11.15, & he slept 2hrs at nursery yesterday & 2hrs 40 at his grandparents today.  And was still shattered & ready for bed by 6.30pm tonight!  Am hoping that doesn't mean we will get an early start to the day tomorrow though. 

Oh & as for his poopy nappy at naptime - he has cereal eg weetabix/rice krispies/porridge plus fresh/pureed fruit followed by a bottle of formula for breakfast.  I've only been giving fruit for breakfast/lunch as I read it can cause early morning poo if you give it too late in the day (& I don't want anything else that could encourange him to EW! )  So maybe that is what's causing the issue at naptime?  I'm hoping that as we get his nap shifted out later it will become less of a problem.  FX'd!

[lulunut]

Wow!  I have missed a bunch!  

Claire-I hope your LO feels better.  I just did what ever worked and tried to stick to routine but didn't push it when my Lo's were sick.  The poop could be from breakfast. It could just be a phase as your LO's systems grows.  Hopefully it doesn't last long!!

Sabs-sorry about the teeth.  Molars are tough!  It sounds like you Lo loves the AP.  I did that for a long time.  I just started last week hanging by the crib and SHH until he fell asleep on his own.  Sometimes lots of PD some days one or 2.  I was his prop!  Doing this stopped his EW's.  Not sure why but it's working!  

Kim-hang on it does get better!  Hugs!

Today was school day so 45 min nap!  BT was 7:15.  Last night was 4:30 cry, I went in one PD and he was out!!  Back up at 5:50.  That was ok!  I just didn't get back to sleep!!  So tired!

[clairebear79]

lulunut - great that PD is working on the AP & his nights are improving - yay!!!

We hit breaking point with our 1 nap routine today.
Yesterday he slept 2h 40 for his nap from 11.20am-2pm & he started screaming & crying with tiredness at 6.15pm (he is very, very OT) & so we got him ready for bed straight away - he was asleep at 6.45pm.  Today, he woke at 4.55am & did not go back to sleep.  I seriously could have cried.  We haven't had one of those for quite a while & I am absolutely certain its down to OT b/c he has been waking repeatedly in the early part of the night & crying. 

So....with that WU there was no way I could hold him out til 11am, he was crying & miserably tired all morning til his nap at 9am (the earliest I was prepared to put him down).  I let him sleep 45mins for his AM nap & then he took a PM nap of 1h 45 from 1.30-3.15pm.  And he was crying for bed by 6.30pm again.  He is so, so OT.  Asleep 6.45pm & I'm hoping we don't get another rude awakening again tomorrow.

[ZacsMumme]

Hi Ladies, we are 2 weeks away from Zac being 1, but he is very much a little toddler now and if its okay I was going to hang out on this thread for a bit - I am thinking maybe I will see some good advice being thrown around! We are pretty much on 1 nap days now, CN is refused, but having a few 'issues' at the moment with teething and developmental leaps - gross!

[lulunut]

Welcome! 

Thanks Claire!

Those three school days on a row really mess him up! I spend the next 2-3 days straightening it out only to go back to the usual again next week! Urgh!

1 hour naps for the last 3 days and ew to go along with it!  Today was 1 hour with AP for 30 min and earlier BT.  I hope for a later wake!!!

Hope everyone is doing good!

[clairebear79]

Hello again Sara!   Can't believe Z is nearly 1!  Glad to see you are just about through your transition. 

Ours is ugly ATM!  Almost 2 weeks of 1 nap ended in disaster with a 4.55am WU & there was no way he was making it to 11am for his nap.  We had 2 days of catch up naps with 45min AM nap & 1.75hr PM nap, his WU shifted back to 6.10am & then yesterday we had PM nap refusal   

And this was after 4hrs A time in the AM, followed by a 30min nap.  I came home from work to find him screaming in his cot b/c he wasn't tired enough to go down after 3hrs A following a short nap.  He ended up doing over 4hrs which meant I had to cap his nap to keep BT at 7pm, and of course today he started stirring/crying out every 15mins from 4.30am onwards & we got an EW at 5.30am. Ugh!!! 

It seems that if he is nap resisting after only 2 days back on 2 naps then either we are getting his A times hugely wrong or he needs to be back on 1 nap.  We rarely get tired signs (although he looks tired ALL THE TIME) so getting the right A times is like a big guessing game.  And of course b/c his nights & WU vary so greatly, the A time he needs each day also varies greatly.  If I keep to 4hrs A time, its not enough & we get UT naps/nap resistance if he's slept 11.5hrs at night, yet if he's only slept 10.5hrs, 4hrs A time is too long & makes him OT.  Ugh ugh ugh!  Where the heck do I go with this

I think we got unlucky b/c I started him off on 1 nap with 5hrs A (set nap at 11am) & that was maybe a step too far (I think his limit is 4.75hrs).  Plus he was poorly after having his jabs, and has a cold & I started back at work last week - so lots of change going on ATM.  Maybe I try again but with a shorter A time?

I have a possibly stupid question:  For those of you who stick to a given amount of A time, what do you do about BT???  Do you do it at a set time of day, or after a set amount of A time?  Just thinking out loud b/c as I say, Oliver's day's vary so much.  If one day he wakes at 6am & goes to bed at 7pm, & then the next day he wakes at 5.30am & I repeat exactly the same A times as the day before, this would mean he'd need to go to bed at 6.30pm.  Then that might mean he wakes even earlier the next day & so on.  So how do you get around this???

[ZacsMumme]

Hi Claire I thouht we were done and dusted with the 2-1 to be honest, but it seems we are now having nap length problems I was getting 45min nap and refusals for a CN all day long! So far our nights are okay. On that 45min day we got a 13.5hour night Yesterday was a 1.5hour nap and a 11.5hr night. I am really worried tohugh we are heading your way with EW around the corner.

On the other 2-1 the ladies are all just starting. So it is hard to get opinions IYKWIM?

Tired signs are a guessing game here too, and I think we need to do a 5hr Nap 5hr BT day. It is jut so scary getting to the 5hrs when the naps are rubbish. Claire I do EBT with no earlier than 6pm to stop the day creeping and encouraging the EW.  Otherwise I think we need a good 5hr A to BT. Or we get screaming I had to put up more blackouts up as with DLS we have bright sun streaming in!

[clairebear79]

Hi Sara.  How have things been today?  We too got an extra long night on the day O did a stupidly short nap like that - I guess its their way of self regulating.  WRT the short naps - how is he waking?  Happy/crying?  When we tried with O, the day he woke after 45mins he was actually quite happy but within 1.5hrs he was zonked out in the car.  I think he only woke happy b/c it was at the end of a sleep cycle rather than in the middle, but for him it was definitely still an OT nap.  Not to say that is the case for Z though.  Do you do the same 4.75hr A both before & after your nap atm?  or are you doing a longer A to BT?  Just wondering if you maybe stretch 1 A time rather than both, if you think the nap shortening is b/c he is UT?

The last 2 days we've done 2 naps as follows:
yesterday:
wake:  5.30 (10.5hr night.  waking repeatedly from 4.30am onwards, chatting & dozing.  I am certain this is OT from PM nap mess day before)
Nap:   9.30 - 10am (held him out til 9.30 even though he'd have gone down a lot earlier.  Woke him after 30mins to preserve PM nap)
Nap:  1.30 - 3.00  (PD at 1.05, asleep 1.15 but woke coughing & took 10mins to resettle.  we woke him at 3pm)
BT: 7pm

today:
Wake: 6.20am (11h 20 night.  waking repeatedly from 4.50am onwards, chatting & dozing)
Nap:  9.30 - 10 (was worried 9.30 would be too early but he looked tired so I risked it.  Asleep quickly.  We woke him from nap)
Nap:  1.30 - 3.00 (repeated yesterday's nap time but think A time between naps may be too long as we had to wake him again & he seemed quite tired all afternoon)
BT:   7.20pm (PD 6.50pm but coughing a lot & think this was why he took a long time to settle)

So he's poorly yet again (& so am I - oh the joys of daycare  ) & so I cannot put my finger on whether the continuing EW are down to being poorly/OT/UT, but I am pretty convinced its accumulated OT from all the 1 nap days & maybe also b/c I am stretching him with too long an A time both before & after his short AM nap.  I checked out the sample routines & they all suggest 2.5-3hrs max A time when doing short AM nap, but this does seem rather short for Oliver now.  What do you think - is 3.5hrs A just asking for OT trouble after a 30min nap???  He has suddenly started headshaking a lot again.  He used to do this when we had the EW before, & since he's been waking later & his days have been shorter (<13hrs) its all stopped.  So to me, its not a good sign.

He's at nursery tomorrow & they struggle to get 2 naps from him, so will most probably do 1, so by Wednesday when he's home with me he'll probably be even more OT.  Ugh - I so wish I could be at home with him all week   

[ZacsMumme]

Thanks Claire will pop back on and read/post again. Zac has got a tummy bug!!! Vomiting ans diarrhea started yesterday and high temp so ATM routine is out the window x