Cold turkey to 1 nap - OT disaster - & now resisting 2 naps aarrrgggghhhh!!!

[clairebear79]

Hi ladies

He didn't sleep in the car - I didn't really expect him to anyway, it was just there as an option if he wanted or needed it.  I did 6pm BT b/c he most definitely needed it, he was tired at 5pm.  PD at 5.50, asleep 6.10pm.

Although I don't like doing BT so early, I am not going to push it atm b/c I have been here before & stuck with a 6.30pm BT b/c of my worry he wouldn't extend his nights & it really was just too much for him - he got far too OT.  So I'll stick with the 5hrs AM A time (from WU ) & the EBT of 6pm, until his nap is late/long enough that the A time to BT is 5hrs max.  Does that sound like a plan?

Thanks so much to all of you for your continued support.  I bet you will be as relieved as me when this is all over! 

[Shiv52]

Glad he settled so well.  Yes I wouldn't push bedtime out just yet. 

Sitck with 5 hours for the next few days and see where that gets you.  I think he is doing really well.

How is his form?

[Shiv52]

And just wanted to add you guys are doing great! 

[clairebear79]

Thanks.  He's doing ok.  Reasonably happy, but he really does look tired.  He's doing a lot of laying/lolling on the floor & flopping backwards all of a sudden.  I am not sure if this is something he's doing just for fun (b/c he's learned how to 'flop' backwards) or if its b/c he's feeling a bit lethargic.  I'm hoping its just for fun!

[Shiv52]

Sounds like he is coping well then!  Good boy O!!  He must know how much you need this!!!

Oh and I'm voting the flopping is for fun too!!!!

[clairebear79]

5.15am WU here.  Nap will be at 10.15am.  Ladies I don't like how much his nap is jumping around.  Yesterday it was 11am, today its 10.15am.  I know I am keeping to a set amount of A but how is his body ever going to get used to napping ata certain time of day if it moves around like this???

Even if he sleeps 2hrs we are still going to have a 6hr A time to BT at 6pm, if nap is shorter then its longer.  I just don't feel like we're making much progress yet.  Siigh.

[Kay Dee]

Slow progress, but still progress!

How do you think he's coping with the 5hr A time? I think you have two options today
1. Stick with 5hrs but then you'll need to try yet again for that elusive catnap if nap is 1.5hrs again. Do you think he'd take one if you tried as late as 4.30/5pm? That would allow you to push bedtime out, which you'll need soon since the clocks are changing!
2. Push on to 5hrs 15  A time. Did he have a less disrupted night last night? If he had a solid 11hrs then it might be a good time to up the A time some more.

I do think there are some windows of opportunity during a transition like this and I hope we didn't miss one yesterday. I feel like somehow we didn't capatilise on that later WU, but not sure what else could have been done  

[clairebear79]

KDee - its hard to say how he's coping with it yet - we've only done one day so far!!!  I think if we didn't have the long day/EW issue he would probably cope ok with it, but while we still have that he's just getting OT. 

WRT the options you suggested - who knows if he'd take the CN   If the nap is short again I will certainly try & I will make the A time even longer. more like 4.5-4.75hrs to see if he'll take it.  Like you say, I will NEED to do this for the clocks changing anyway.

As for stretching his A again, I don't think I've given the 5hr A a long enough shot to say its not working yet.  His night was less disturbed than previous nights - but we still got a couple of brief WU's at 8 & 9pm.  That said, he is clearly very tired again this morning.  he's incredibly fussy & shaking his head.  I think unless we can get his day shorter & he sleeps a longer night he's going to struggle to cope with these A times for very long.

I actually had a look at all my sleep books last night & all the experts seem to say the same thing about this transition, keep shifting the nap time later by 5mins every few days until its after lunch, & in the mean time, keep doing EBT.  I am wondering if once the clock change is out the way, this might be my best option.  I just feel like we are trapped in this early wake, early nap early BT cycle & unless I do something proactive we are not going to get out of it.  I know from my past experience with EW the only way to get out is to push the nap later.  Maybe this would be the best plan of action for our situation - what do you think ladies??? 

[ZacsMumme]

Sweetie, I would push that nap out a touch to at least 10.30 to combat ew cycle but not much more or you may get more OT. Do you think you could do a 10 min walk around then 5 min extra wd or read a book to get him there? S x

[clairebear79]

Yea I'm sure I could get him there Sara.  I am just worrying about not being consistent though.  We've literally pushed his A time from 4.25hrs to 5hrs in 3-4 days & its a big enough jump already without going another 15mins.  But I definitely agree that doing early nap is just encouraging the EW.  I think I am going to have no option soon but to be brutal with this 1 nap business & just push it forwards 5mins every day regardless of how long he's been awake b/c I think if I don't then we are going to be stuck here for a VERY long time.  I can't believe he is taking his nap so early now.  This is as early as he was taking his AM nap on a 2 nap day some weeks ago.  Siigh.  I am actually feeling pretty lost & pretty close to tears right now b/c NOTHING I do is helping.  We are at the 5hrs A & are STILL with a 10am nap.  Its just not good.  And I am getting so tired of EMW.  Surely after 9 months of it we deserve a break.  Please.


ETA: we didn't make 10.30am.     He was getting too tired.  Falling over & eyelids drooping.  PD 10.10, asleep 10.20am.  FX'd.

[Shiv52]

But I definitely agree that doing early nap is just encouraging the EW.

Claire, I am going to be really honest.  The early nap is NOT encouraging the EW.  It is not a case of him not having enough A time so he is catching up on night sleep.  That is not the case here when he is doing a proper amount of A time.  That is only the case if it is a true EW (less than 10 hours sleep) and then they are doing way less than appropriate A time before they want to nap again. 

O is NOT EW hun.  He's not.   He did an 11 hour night.  If you have him in bed at 6pm, asleep for 6.10pm then 5.15am is a great wake up. 

The early waking is not being caused by the nap being too early.  it is a part of this transition.  It is a combination of not handling long enough A times and going to bed early.  KWIM?  I hate to think of you being so upset over this because actually O is doing great.

I think you need to give it a few more days and see does the nap lengthen out again. 

TBH overall I think the early bedtimes are the issue.  I know O has done a few nights where he has tacked on his night sleep but I don't think he is truly a kid who tacks on. 

For me if things are still wonky in a few days I would set a bedtime that you are not going to go earlier than.  And I would pick 6.45/7pm so that with an 11 hour night you still get an ok wake up.   I pretty much set bedtime and nap when we moved to one nap give or take 10 minutes and we just got through the OT.  If OT was coming into play I did a CN and a later bedtime to catch us up.  But i think you need to be fair to you and O.  He is doing great.  TBH if you weren't so concerned about OT I would tell you to set the nap and bedtime and just go with it for 2 weeks but you have me terrified of how he is when he's OT


{{{{hugs hun}}}}

[clairebear79]

Shiv  - thanks hun - I do know he's not technically EW'ing, but rather we are in an early wake, early nap, early BT cycle.  I am just so tired of it though.  We've now spent 9 months of O's 14month life with really early starts to our day.  Sleep deprivation is so exhausting, both mentally & physically & I've really had enough.

I agree I don't think O is a kid who tacks on,  so where does that leave us  

As far as I see - and I think from your post you agree - we need to shift his day later.  If I keep offering the nap after 5hrs A when he wakes at 5am then he will keep needing EBT & we will carry on getting an early start to the day.

So to my mind, there are 2 ways to deal with this.
1) push the nap later (gradually so as not to risk an OT nap), which should mean BT will also be later OR
2) like you suggest - stretch BT to a set time.

Is there a reason why the 2nd option is a better approach than the first?  In the past when I have stretched BT as a means of shifting his day later it has always backfired & he has woken even earlier the next day through OT, so I am a bit hesitant to try it. Do you think its a less risky approach than pushing the nap out, b/c if if I push the nap too far he might short-nap & thus need an even earlier BT  I thought the former might be a more gentle way to do it than say 'ok you napped 10-12 but you've got to stay up til 7pm no matter what' IYSWIM?

TBH if you weren't so concerned about OT I would tell you to set the nap and bedtime and just go with it for 2 weeks but you have me terrified of how he is when he's OT

I am actually beginning to setting the times might be the best route.  Its got to be more consistent than what we are doing now.  I think I am brave enough to handle his OT.  I think the worst bit is probably my guilt at how tired he looks as opposed to how he is in himself.   

I think if things are still looking wonky by next week then this is what I may need to do.  What time would I set the nap with a 5am WU though???  This is why I wondered whether saying nap is 11am (regardless of WU) & then gradually shifting it 5mins later each day would be the best idea, until its at midday.  Thus its still a set nap as such, but we are working it gradually towards where it wants to be (after lunch).  What do you think?

[Kay Dee]

KDee - its hard to say how he's coping with it yet - we've only done one day so far

Ha! I was sure it had been at least two days!

I've always found pushing the nap later to be the best option before stretching bedtime as an OT nap is easier to recover from than an OT night IYSWIM. If he wasn't so sensitive to OT I think you could do something like a set nap at 11 and a set bedtime of 6.30pm and gradually push both on over a few days.

How is he getting on today?

x

[clairebear79]

Thanks KDee.  Day so far is:

Wake: 5.15
Nap:  10.20 - 12.20 (woke whinging)
BT:   

I guess its another 6pm-er right?  Don't really see how I can push it on today with the WU & nap being so early.  What do you all think?

[Kay Dee]

Great nap! Yes, I would think a 6pm bedtime is best. He seems to be doing well on 5hrs. I think you could push on a bit more tomorrow if you get another good nap.