Cold turkey to 1 nap - OT disaster - & now resisting 2 naps aarrrgggghhhh!!!

[clairebear79]

We had a very unsettled night.  Didn't have to go to him but he woke repeatedly in the early part of the night & then he woke at 3am, 3.30am & then at 4.30am I seriously thought he was up for the day.  Don't know how long he was awake but he did eventually go back off to sleep until 6am.  So 11h 45 sleep but very disturbed.

His temperature is back to normal & he seems ok this morning, but he looks even worse around his eyes than he did yesterday & he keeps laying on the floor & he has also been head shaking, which we've not had so far.

Ladies I was thinking about the clock change today & the fact that we need to get his day stretched.  I am very worried that if we do 5hrs A & nap then shoot for a CN later he may well refuse & then that leaves us with a 6pm BT which means 5am or earlier WU tomorrow.

What if, as a one off, we do a 45min AM nap from say 9.45-10.30 & a 1.5hr pm nap something like 2-3.30 or 2.30-4 & then shoot for a 7.30-8pm BT.  We'll likely only get 11hrs sleep overnight but it will give us a later WU, may help him with OT if he is feeling more tired today AND I am certain I can get the 2 naps.  Just seems like it might be a better way to handle today & then we can get back on with the 5hrs A tomorrow.  What do you all think?

[ZacsMumme]

Haven't been in your position hun re turning your day around. I think if you know you can get that PM nap - even if you have to APOP it, then it wont mess up your progress so far as a 1 off (HUGS) on the rough night. Could have been because he wasn't well you think?

[Shiv52]

YEah I would do that Clare especially based on the clock changing.  We're doing CN and later bedtime here too.  It wouldn't be unusual in this transition to need the odd 2 nap day to keep on top of the OT either so I think it sounds like a good plan.

[clairebear79]

Hiya ladies.

Yes rough night may be down to illness but his temperature is normal today & he doesn't seem to be ill (except for the ongoing cold )

We didn't do the short AM nap today - decided it might be better to keep with our routine & try for the elusive PM C/N in order to stretch the day, rather than changing it up on him & doing short AM/long PM, despite my worries.  However, I think it was a big mistake.

We stuck with the 11am nap (5hrs A) but Oliver really struggled with it.  He has looked dreadfully tired all morning & kept bursting into tears.  He cried really hard when I took him up to bed, where normally he doesn't, so I was half expecting an OT nap.  He woke after 20mins & took almost 10mins to resettle & has just woken again after another 30mins but has gone back to sleep now.  And now we're onto the 3rd mid-nap WU after just 10more mins at 12.10pm.

I've attached a pic of him today so you can all see what I am seeing ATM.  Forgive me its not the best of pics but I just want to know if you all think he looks as dreadfully tired as I do.  This is how he looks ALL THE TIME.  MIL has just called to see how he is, & she said she thought yesterday he looked 'really weary' & like he's utterly worn out. 

I am very very worried about this.  He is having disturbed night sleep every single night, disturbed naps & looks dreadful.  This is our 3rd or 4th attempt (I forget  ) to do 1 nap now - but if he is getting this OT with the transition surely that is a big enough hint in itself that he isn't ready.  What if all this PM nap refusal isn't b/c he is ready for 1 nap, as they say it can start WELL before they are really ready.  And I learned yesterday there is a big sleep regression at around 13months where they can start refusing naps as they assert their independence/authority.  What if its just been a case of the latter all along???

[Shiv52]

I don't really know what to say Claire.  From all your pp 2 naps just does not seem feasible as you don't think he can handle the longer days consistently (which is what you have to have to fit it all in without capping naps) and you don't want to have a later bedtime than 7/7.30pm.
 

And I learned yesterday there is a big sleep regression at around 13months where they can start refusing naps as they assert their independence/authority.  What if its just been a case of the latter all along???

Well if that is the case then you are still going to be stuck with a one nap day anyways and all you can do is keep offering and if he doesn't take it then do EBT and accept the early wake ups. 

So i guess it is upto you.  I personally would keep going with what you are doing but you will probably need a 2 nap day every so often and a later bedtime to keep on top of the OT.  That is totally normal and fine.  I hope you get your CN later.  I would make sure you give him a really good long A time or else he is likely to refuse it. 

[clairebear79]

I personally would keep going with what you are doing but you will probably need a 2 nap day every so often and a later bedtime to keep on top of the OT.

Thanks Shiv - we have just been talking & we are going to keep going at it.  I am just finding it all so very worrying & stressful b/c I think he is incredibly tired & I have this huge fear I am doing the wrong thing.  But you are right, there isn't much room to go back to 2 naps now as he is doing such long A times & gets less sleep overall that way than with the 1 nap.  I need to kick my 'poor baby syndrome 'in the butt & remember why I am doing this don't I?

WRT throwing in a 2nap day with a later BT every so often - how do I do this if he won't take the PM C/N Do I need to offer a short AM/long PM since that is the only way I will get it for sure???  Or is that the wrong approach b/c it breaks with the routine?

He's had an awfully disturbed nap with 4 WU's & it is over after 1h 45mins, at 12.45pm.  So we will be trying for the C/N.  What length A time do I try after that length of nap - would I be better to just do 4.75-5 hrs to completely avoid the risk of refusal?  If I do that, nap will be 5.30-5.45pm.  How long to let him sleep???  Say 10-15mins & then do 7.30/8pm BT???

[Shiv52]

would I be better to just do 4.75-5 hrs to completely avoid the risk of refusal?  If I do that, nap will be 5.30-5.45pm.  How long to let him sleep???  Say 10-15mins & then do 7.30/8pm BT???

Yes.  I'd do at least 4.75, let him sleep 15-20 minutes then bed for 8pm.  Hopefully then you'll get an 11 hour night which will actually be a 6am wake up which isn't too bad.

With the 2 nap day...it is a break from the routine anyways so it doesn't matter if you do long am-short pm or vice versa.  I used to AP a CN every 4-5 days when I just thought she was getting too tired and just did later bedtime that day.  M's naps were only 1.5 hours though initially so O may not need too many 2 nap days through the transition as he is generally napping well.  But it is something you can use when you think he needs to catch up or if you wake up is getting too early and you need to push bedtime later again. 

[clairebear79]

Ah thanks for that.  I thought I had to keep with the same routine I was doing (long AM) so that's good to know that it shouldn't matter if it is just for the odd day.  

PD for PM nap at 4.75hrs & just gone off at 5hrs A, 5.45pm.  Going to allow 15mins & then do BT at 8 (if he is good for it).

[clairebear79]

He made it til 7.45pm.  He was starting to get loopy so I decided better to PD a tad early than PD at 8 & have him take 30mins to settle b/c he's OT.  He went to sleep pretty quickly.  All I can do now is wait.........

[Shiv52]

Good luck for tonight hun xx

[clairebear79]

He wasn't asleep when I wrote that last post - thought he was but he fooled me!  Asleep 7.55pm.

He woke repeatedly every 20-30mins until around 11pm & then who knows how many times overnight.  He did 9h 50 of broken night sleep & was up for the day today at 5:45am  - & then I remembered the clocks changed so that was actually 4:45am.  He wasn't very happy at WU & we left him 45mins before getting up in hopes he'd resettle but he didn't.

We got a proper EW 

Seems we'd have had the same WU if I'd have just stuck with a 12hr day.  Hope you had better luck ladies.

If we keep with the 5hrs A then nap will be at 9.45am, and if he sleeps 2hrs he'll have 6hrs 15min A time to BT & if he sleeps less then he'll have even longer to last.  I think today we have no choice but a 2 nap day.  He is so very tired today & he NEEDS it, esp with nursery tomorrow.

Ladies, I think the time has come for me to stop seeking advice on BW.  Its such a fantastic resource but I think I am becoming over-reliant on it & am seeking advice from others when I should have the courage & confidence to make my own decisions about my LO & what he needs.  I know I have issues with lack of self esteem & confidence & in relying on others I am not taking steps to help myself.  For my son, I need to take a few steps back & make my own judgements (of course taking on board all I have learned  ).

Thank you so much for all the time & effort you have spent helping me ladies.  I am going to stay with it & hopefully in a few weeks/months things will look & feel very different.

[Truly Blessed]

(((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

xxx.

[Shiv52]

Hugs Claire xx

Trust your mummy gut. It is rarely wrong, if ever xx

[clairebear79]

Ladies - just thought I'd give you an update.  I'm staying with the routine (bet you thought I never would  )

We've had a very messy week courtesy of the clock change, with mostly 5am WU's.  Last tuesday he pretty much fell asleep in his highchair at 9am at MIL's house so that was a 2 nap day.  We did 2 naps again on Saturday to push his BT (& hopefully WU) later.  It worked - he did an 11.5hr night 

Yesterday
WU: 6.50am
Nap: 12.05 - 2.05  (PD for 11.50am - took a while to settle.  WU at 1hr mark but resettled.  Not surprised as he was rubbing his eyes at 9.45am & going round in circles by nap time.)
BT:  7pm  (PD at 6.40pm aiming for 6.50 asleep.
NW: 8pm, 9.30pm, crying every 5-10mins from 4.30-5.15am

Today
Wake: 6am
Nap    11.05 - 12.30
BT:    6.15pm   (PD 5.55pm)

We are around 3 weeks into this 'routine' now & are still not getting consistently long naps or nights.  I can't bring myself to believe he's LSN b/c he constantly looks tired & his naps/nights are short & disturbed so I am putting this down to OT from the transition & the unfortunate timing of the clocks changing 

So...... do you mind if I ask your thoughts on this:
While we stick with the 5hr AM A time & he keeps doing less than 12hrs at night, his WU keeps getting earlier.  This means nap gets earlier each day, & as we stick with 6pm BT at the earliest, his A time to BT gets longer & longer, meaning he gets OT at BT.  I really need to try & get his WU stabilised b/c it is still jumping all over.

I am thinking it may be time to stick with a set nap of say 11am, no matter what wakeup we get (even if its 5am ) & gradually push it forward by 5mins every 3 days until we're at a midday nap & 7pm BT.  I think while I keep offering an early nap we will keep getting an early wakeup time & the cycle will continue.  Would you agree ladies or do you think I am better staying as we are with the 5hrs A time in the hopes that things eventually settle down.

Am not going to debate/question/analyse anyone's response, I guess I'm just looking for a bit of reassurance that we are heading on the right track.

Thanks ladies.xx

[Shiv52]

Hey hun

I would start to think about setting the nap, yes.  I set nap and bedtime in our transition and i do think it made a big difference to success.  So I guess my advice is to set nap and bedtime give or take 10 minutes and stick with it.  He has been doing the longer A times for a good while now so he should be ready for the next set and it actually might help the naps lengthen and WU set a bit better if the nap and bedtime are set.

Well done you for sticking with it xx