Support for dropping the nap part 9.

[Mama_Mia]

I'm in total shock, after a 3 hour long nw last night which I know was due to OT M finally napped today. It's great that he was finally able to get some sleep and will hopefully go back to sttn.

Claire I offer M a nap every day whether he seems ot or night. It is my way of getting some quiet time.

[Mum of PA]

Hi ladies

I am going to join in if you don't mind, although I think we are a lost cause!  As I type my just turned 3 year old DS is currently hiding from me  under our trampoline (albeit vehemently yelling at me as well) knowing I can't reach for him because he does not want his nap  .  He is clearly tired, rubbing his eyes and yawning, it's the 4th day in a row he has refused to nap.

So I know it is enitrely possilble he is nap dropping but just wanted to talk through a few things before I totally give up on it.  He started Kindy 3 weeks ago 3 or 4 days a week (it depends on how tired he is whether I send him 4 days) 9am to 12.30pm.  Before then he was napping 1 pm to 2.30pm everyday with me waking him 99% of the time.  He wakes at 7am and goes to bed at 7pm.  He started resisting naps a couple of days after he started kindy but I was still able to get him to sleep most the time, the last week and a half he has point blank refused to sleep.  He will stall - want another toy in bed, more blankets, less blankets, white noise on, white noise off etc if I do finally get him into bed will yell out for me "Mum, Mum don't go", "Mum come back".  Going in makes it worse (I do when he is genuinely upset and crying), so i usually just stand outside his door and let him know I am there but it is time for sleep.  He has now taken to getting up and running into the lounge telling me he doesn't want to sleep (he has never gotten out of bed ever before). I was desperate for him to sleep 4 days ago that DD and I sat on a chair in his room until he nodded off (I have done this occasionally when he has obviously needed a nap but been reluctant to and starting to get OT).  He was exhausted but had fought and fought his sleep time making up things he needed, telling me he wasn't tired etc.  He fell asleep within 10 minutes.  I don't really want to have to stay in his room but I will if I have too, but since then he really, really doesn't want me too. I have tried quiet time in his room - he wont stay there, I have tried putting him down later, I have tried alternate nap days but if he doesn't want to sleep he WONT.  He is spirited and really loud and vocal about it - I am losing patience with the whole thing to be honest, I don't have the energy to fight him (and by that I mean coax, reason, cajole him  ) everyday because I lose everyday anyway  .  I really feel he still needs a sleep especially now he is at Kindy, but to be honest other than one horrifc day he has coped quite well without a nap but he has only had 2 days in a row without a nap before - today will be 4 days without a nap and I am dreading him getting OT because quite honestly he can be a bit of a monkey anyway, so with OT thrown in we could be in for trouble    I have been keeping our afternoons really low key and putting him down a touch earlier at night.  I realise it is the beginning of nap dropping but it is hard to believe that 3 weeks ago he was sleeping so much and now that he is doing so much more with kindy and napping is just so difficult......

Any ideas ladies?  I don't know what to do, he is incredibly stubborn he ain't gonna sleep if he doesn't want to but he is clearly tired!

[roseola]

Hi All! I haven't been around for awhile because I thought we had dropped the nap, but we are in H**L and I'm wondering if you think this could still be related to the transition.


DS is 3y4m EW for the 1st Time EVER.

This all started w/ DS having nightmares about 1 month ago. He was terrified to fall asleep and was NW for 1.5-3hs, plus EW. We stayed with him in his room until they past, then he was in the habit of having us in there and began NW for 1.5-3hrs but not scared, so we did GW and now he falls asleep independently and is STTN. But the EW are still happening and they are getting earlier and earlier.

We had a pretty smooth transition to a BBB after the nightmares resolved.

He was also constantly saying “I don’t like to sleep. Why do I have to sleep? I don’t need sleep.”

I tried W2S for the EWs because there was a constant WU time and it seemed to work for a bit. I have been doing Sleep Talk to help him understand that sleep is good for him, and he hasn’t said his mantra, “I don’t like to sleep. Why do I have to sleep? I don’t need sleep,” in quite some time. But the EW are still happening and getting earlier and the WU times are all over the place.

He has a Gro-clock that I bought when he was a little baby because I couldn’t believe I found it in the US and bought it for safekeeping. It sat in the box in my closet for almost 3 years because he has never EW before.  We have been using it but his wake up times are so erratic that I can’t ever get the sun to come up at the right time.

For most of his toddler life he’s had 11-12h total sleep/day, and following the 1-0 (about 4 months ago) he slept 11.5-12h per night, ranging from 7pm-7am to 8pm-8am.

I set the Gro-clock b/w 7:15 and 7:30am. He calls out to us when he wakes early, we don’t go in, but lie down on an air mattress outside his closed door because he just transitioned to a BBB and we really don’t want him to get into the habit of getting out of the bed at 5am while all this is going on. He stays in the bed now until the sun comes up, up to 2hours sometimes! Calling out occasionally but almost never falling back to sleep.

His last couple of days went like this:

A: 6:15
In BBB: 6:30pm
S: 7:30 (would have been earlier but he pooped)

A:4:30am!! Wet, wouldn’t go back to sleep
Nap IN CRIB: 11-2pm
In BBB: 7:00pm
S 8:15pm

A: 6:30
Tried nap, in crib from 12-1pm No Nap
In BBB 6:10
S:6:45

Today
A: 5:00am (maybe back to sleep  for 30 min)
In CRIB for nap 10:30am, lays without a sound until he finally fell asleep at 12:pm
Woke him at 1pm
In BBB: 6:30
S: 7:45!!!

I have no idea what’s happening. I can’t imagine he would just go from needing 11.5-12h of sleep overnight to less than 10h on average lately and with no nap on most days.  It takes him forever to fall asleep (no crying, just a lot of rolling around) in his BBB, and on nap days it’s even worse. I feel like I’m trying EBTs but they don’t always work out b/c he takes so long to fall asleep.

Please help! I’m pregnant and exhausted and petrified that this could still be happening when the baby get’s here.

Thanks for reading this long story!

[Mama_Mia]

hi Nini, how are things going now? Everyone seems to have disappeared from this board, lol

M is a year younger so I have no idea what happens at 3yrs. We are having major issues here too. He has been waking in the middle of the night and staying awake and the only reason I know he is awake is because I happen to wake and look at the monitor. He lays there totally quiet for an hour or longer. Then he refuses to nap even tho I think he needs it. Things are just such a mess right now

[ZacsMumme]

Hi ladies. We're close to the transition...... Z will take a nap but then do a shorter night. I'm not to concerned ATM but he's going to need a nap I think for a bit longer so was wondering for those of you who do 1 nap day 1 no nap day how this works for you? - do you do quiet time on no nap days?

[barbaraz78]

Sara, we offer a nap every day and it depends by him to take it or not. He's at daycare during the week and kids nap there, even if F doesn't nap sometimes. But during the weekend we offer the nap and he sometime takes it and sometime not. When he naps night is quite short now, ca. 10-10.5 h, but it is still fine for us. We are averaging 11-11.5 h sleep in 24 now, either all in the night or 10.5 h night + 1 h nap.

[TB9]

Sara - I have no experience with alternating nap/no nap days, I've just been going with whatever DD wants that day...makes things frustrating since I feel like we haven't actually had a "schedule" of any sort for a long time but I guess that's what happens during these transitions 

DD is doing well with stretches of 11hrs days and 13hrs nights, some days she needs a nap but I can usually tell in the am if she needs a nap that day so those are really the only days I try to get a nap out of her, we usually just do quiet time (books ora movie or both).  We do get nws some nights, and some talking in her sleep so I know some nights she's ot but if she sleeps in the next day it resolves on its own

[Mama_Mia]

Sara, When M first did alternating nap days, I would only offer the nap on the nap days then the next day I used the opportunity to stay out and get things done. It worked really well for awhile. I dont know what happened but I think, when he started refusing the nap on the days he was supposed to nap I started putting him down for quiet time every day, which I am starting to think was a mistake because I believe he is now going through ut/ot loop from so much relaxation time. I am going to go back to only offering him a nap/quiet time every other day and see if I can get him back on track.

[roseola]

I have no idea what stage we are in now, but when were dropping the nap I offered a nap/quiet time everyday. DS had many 1 hour rests in his crib, rollin' around.

[ZacsMumme]

Thing is, Z doesn't want it...but always goes to sleep...so I'm thinking he needs it still? - he will do long nights on a random no ap day but the next day he needs a long one YK?

[barbaraz78]

I would actually wait. Before starting nap refusal he needed the nap, even when said he didn't want to nap. Now he actually ALWAYS say he doesn't want to sleep, even at bt of a nn day... How long are nights on a nap day?

[ZacsMumme]

On a nap day they are varied. Usually if he's had a full on day he does 11-11.5hrs sometimes he chats in his cot ages and does closer to 10.5-11. Thing is he is happy to go in his cot at 7.30 and usually happy for me to get him up at 7.30am ... Even with the nap

So yes... Reading al Latham he needs it doesn't he lol.
What do I do when he won't sleep till its too late in the daY? - were at 2-3.15/3.30 most days...I can't cap the nap or he is cranky as!

[barbaraz78]

Well, 10.5-11 h nights plus the nap are bliss for us! That said, night sleep also varies for us. For example he usually does 10-10.5 h during a nap day, but yesterday he napped and today slept soundly 11 h... So, he is self-regulating I guess. Of course life is less predictable.. But I don't sleep the same amount of hours everyday myself, so I suppose they also have little variation.
When F doesn't nap till late in the day I often leave him without a nap. However, this has been only recently, as I can see that he copes well without a nap now. Before, I used to let him nap and cap the nap. But F is generally OK with nap capping, if he slept at least 45 min.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Ladies, I am in need of help! It's been a a long time since I was this clueless 

The only naps Sam will do now are APOP car naps, generally he needs 7 hours plus to do that. However with any length nap his nights are 10 hours ish, so less than 11 hours. Without a nap, as we're stuck in an early morning cycle, he would need a 12/13 hour day to go to bed at a reasonable time. If I push him he sleeps a short night, If I don't he no longer tacks. When he wakes he shouts so so loud for us that I have to go in. The Gro-clock is now useless because of this.

Luckily he handles OT well, but this week he is lolling around and leaning his head on everything, which he has never done in the past. The other day I decided to hell with it, I will go with a set BT of 7 pm, but as he had been up so early it would have been a 13 hour day after 11 hours sleep, so at 12 hours he begged me to take him up.

What would you do? Honestly this morning I cried, I'm too old to be up at 6 something everyday and I'm only getting 6 hours ish myself and I need 7. When Sam is down I am studying for me new job which I start soon, so I need my rest more than ever.

I know this is a really tricky one, but as always I really value your opinion Ladies.

TIA

Vicki.x.

[clairebear79]

Hiya hun

Hugs, sounds really tough atm. What time is sam getting up & going to bed? Rather than going straight for a set bedtime of 7pm, could you perhaps push bedtime later by 15mins per week? That way you are working towards your goal of 7pm & it will be more manageable for him to stay up an extra 15mins than an hour iyswim?

Is he really awful after 10-10.5hrs night sleep on a nap day? I honestly don't think thats too bad (on paper) at his age if he's having a decent length nap but obv his behaviour is the best indicator, & i completely appreciate you need your evening time, esp at the moment (how is that going btw?)

Xxxx