Support for dropping the nap part 9.

[Truly Blessed]

Claire Honey, what time is his nap on nap days 

Have you tried the later/shorter nap combination yet     I know Oliver doesn't do as well on a short nap, but maybe it's worth trying for a nap of around 45 mins after 7 hours at least, and then BT just 30 mins or so adjusted. Then maybe long am will over ride short pm, which as you know, was a no go area for Sam for months but then it started to work again for a while due to him getting OT. The shorter nap seems to be key though, so he may be a bit of a 'bear' until BT  .

Or, shoot for a nap every 3rd day and go with a much later BT/longer day so you shift WU back again, and then the NN day cycle can start again from a better place.

Like this:

WU 6.30 NN day

BT 7.00


same again on day 2.


Day 3


WU 6.30 (earliest I would hope)

Nap 1.30 to 3.30

BT 9.00 pm

WU 7/7.30

Or something like this, obviously I'm guessing what he'd do, same as I spent my time guessing with Sam these days 

What do you think 

HTH.

(Hugs)

x.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Claire - will he take a car Nap?

[barbaraz78]

Claire, what we are doing is keeping a fixed bt, that for us is 9 pm. we always offer a nap and when he refuses it bt os 8.30. As wu is generally 7.45-8 (occasionally 7.30 and occasionally 8.30), this makes a 12.5 h day with which he cope very well since he was almost 3. He generally doesn't sleep longer the night of a nn day. However, the day after he is enough tired to nap.
Have to say that nap is 45 min-1.15 h capped (depending what time he falls asleep), so if O's nap is longer you can find that he needs less nap days.
I would continue offering the nap thought. I know that if I stop offering it every day, no way F will take one in the future, even if he needs it. Now, he knows nap is part of the routine, so if he doesn't take it it is because he isn't tired.

[Aishi]

We're in the same boat claire. Wu is usually 6.30 so i cant do nnds since he wont tack on and i dont wamt a 5.30/6 wu!!

So im still offering naps. I was doing 1.15-2.15 capped and asleep by 8 but last few days hes fighting it and sleeping by 8.30/40. Wu was 7.10 today tho so at least 10.5h night sleep so im going to try 45 min capped with 2 pm wu and hopefully asleep by 8 in hope of getting more sleep... Dont know how to get later wu tho... Sorry not much help i know :/

[clairebear79]

Hi ladies thanks for so much wonderful advice. I think i might have confused you all though! Nap days really arent a problem. When he naps, its usually around 2-4pm. Bedtime is 8pm, straight to sleep, no callbacks, no nw & he's usually up around 6.45-7am the next day. Typically 10.5-11hrs which in my book is fine. Its on the days where he doesnt nap that i have the problem now, as his nights following a no nap day seem to be much shorter of late, around 12hrs instead of 13-14 & this is where the ot is creeping in. I'm sure we'll get back to a later wu after a few nap days (assuming i can get him to take one of course), its just as soon as he's back at nursery he's back to no nap, long days, getting ot & short nights again. & the more he refuses to nap the more this is going to happen - i want to be prepared! Maybe the best course of action is to reinstate a later, capped nap every single day, idk. He's clearly not ready to go without it completely, any more than 2 days & we're into meltdown!

[Mama_Mia]

Hey all, sorry I havent been around, we were going through the nap dropping and it was frustrating to say the least. I found there is a lot of bouncing back and forth between not needing a nap for awhile then needing a nap for awhile. But M seems to be mostly done with the nap. He will nap once every couple of weeks now but thats it.

As far as sleep cycles go, M always had a 45 min cycle and it never changed.

As far as day lengths go, M started with a 10-10.5 hr day with nn (9.5 hrs after 3 days with nn) and a 12.5 hour day with nap. Then he went to an 11 hr day with nn and still 12.5 with a nap. Then he went to nn every day and an 11-11.5 hr day. All in all it took about 5 months for him to drop the nap. But he has always been low (daytime) sleep needs and High A times.

Hugs to everyone going through this transition and lots of luck finding the magic numbers that will keep your sanity in place

[barbaraz78]

When does he nap at nursery Claire?
I find that F naps longer and more often at preschool than how he would nap at home, but this doesn't really impact on the night (usually... I hope not to regret these words tomorrow ), so I guess preschool has a level of activity (and stress to be with others and follow rules) that is not easily reached at home. I suspect that we would be much more ahead with nap dropping it it wasn't for preschool. So I am thinking if he could be a little ot at nursery so needing a little earlier nap. Anyway, I believe he will self-regulate in few days/weeks, as he had this before.

Mama_C I am happy that you found the balance and are finally seeing the light in the end.

[cath~]

Mama_C - pleased you are at the end of this transition now!  How are M's nights now?  Any long NWs or have those gone now?

[Mama_Mia]

He sttn most nights and sleeps anywhere from 11-12.5 hours. We havent had any long nw's in awhile now. And if he does wake in the night it's usually because he soaked through his diaper and jammies. I still have to change him at midnight every night to try and keep him dry.  The little munchkin, holds his pee almost all day then does it at night. But he refuses to use the potty.

[cath~]

That's great the long NWs have gone now Mama_C   It sounded like torture at the time!  Shame about the wee though.  If it's any consolation, L has been PTd since last summer but still soaks her nappy every night though.

We are on day 6 of no nap now, and she's getting about 30 mins more sleep/day than when she was having a 10 min nap, so all good here so far (Previously she'd had a max of 3 days in a row without a nap).

[clairebear79]

MamaC glad to hear M's stopped the nw & is coping ok without the nap.

Cath - sounds like L's doing great too!

Barbara- oliver doesnt nap at nursery at all, its not compulsory in uk like it is in italy & theyve basically given up trying because he point blank refuses nowadays, there's too much going on there! I guess we'll just have to suck up the OT for now eh?

Had much better night last night, he napped 1.20-4pm at mils yesterday & slept 8pm-7.30am overnight & i managed to get him to nap 2.30-4pm today aswell. So fx'd thats us back on track til the next bout of refusals.

[Aishi]

Ds refused nap yesterday at usual time of 1.30 and again at 3.30 (prob cos we were at mums). He had a 12 h day 6.30-6.30 and woke at 6.50 this am so a 12h20 night...

If he has another nnd dyt with a shorter day eg 10.5/ 11 hr he will do a longer than 12h night or will i get a 5.30/ 6 am wu?

Anyone btdt?? xx

[cath~]

Claire - FXd you're back on track now with that nap.

Aishi - do you think a 12hr20 night was enough for him to catch up or do you think there will be some carry-over tiredness from the previous nnd? How much sleep does he usually get per day?

I suspect you would prob get a longer night after another nnd and EBT, but of course the less overall tired he is, the less he will sleep in the next day, although I often think EBT works well cos LOs often sleep til their usual WU out of habit anyway.

[barbaraz78]

Barbara- oliver doesnt nap at nursery at all, its not compulsory in uk like it is in italy & theyve basically given up trying because he point blank refuses nowadays, there's too much going on there! I guess we'll just have to suck up the OT for now eh?

Yes, I think unfortunately there's no much you can do. But as I said, I believe he will adjust somehow.
I'm not sure how it works in UK, but is it possible that at nursery they continue offering the nap anyway and then take him up if he doesn't fall asleep after, let's say, half an hour? In this way, if he really needs a nap he will have the possibility to fall asleep. Do they have quiet time? This also serves to allow a tired kid to fall asleep if he needs. I don't like (and this is really the only thing that I don't like in our preschool) the compulsory thing: I think that at this age nursery and preschool should be flexible enough to offer a nap if they need it and to let them up (after a while) if they don't. This is not what happen in our preschool, but I would really like something like this for napping (and it is what we do at home). Of course, if I ask him if he wants to nap, forget it, he would NEVER nap (nor going to sleep at bt).

If he has another nnd dyt with a shorter day eg 10.5/ 11 hr he will do a longer than 12h night or will i get a 5.30/ 6 am wu?

I think it depends from the kid. Mine would never sleep more than 12 h, but I know many would do.

Cath, I am happy you're going so well without a nap!

[Aishi]

Thanks Cath & claire.... He doesnt usually tack onto night sleep which is y i try for naps and He usually averages 11-11.5h inc nap.. .and 6.30 is his usual wu...dyt i should try ebt of 6 (earliest i can manage) or go for 12h day in hope of later wu if he manages another 12.5h night...or will this just accumulate ot?