anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[NiknLily]

Jo, Hi sorry I missed your post until now, although I see the ladies have given you some advice already, I just thought I would add a little in response to some of your queries.

I would say that she is up and talking in the night because she now needs less daytime sleep, so when she is getting it during the day she is taking it back out at night.  The day she slept for 2hrs in the am then would not sleep again that day would also be for that same reason, she simply didn't want anymore sleep that day.

I would advise keeping her naps a little shorter, I think 1-1.15hrs a piece would be about normal making a total of 2-2.5hrs day sleep.  In this way hopefully you will be able to get her to take 2 naps for a while longer.

I too was confused about what happens to the pm nap if you extend the morning A time.  In answer I think you can do 1 of 2 things.  Offer a late catnap if she will take it.  This can be taken anyway you can get her to sleep, in car, pushchair, swing, however, as you will end up dropping this nap before long.  Or if she refuses a late catnap then you have to offer an early bedtime and don't be afraid to make it super early say 5.30/6pm, it doesn't usually have any effect on morning wake up time when done in conjunction with 1 nap days 

[sorayas mom]

Well, I've decided that there is no normal for my lo at this point in time 

We had a couple good days with two naps and 4 H A time.  But I figured out that was because she was sleeping poorly at night ( OT from being away one night then teething the next) so once she got a solid 12 hour night we were back to one nap.  So for two days in a row she has taken 1.5 hour naps and had early bedtimes.  So far OT has not crept in.  If she has a poor night or EW, then I will just bump up the nap and go for two.  But if she sleeps well it will be pushed back a bit and will probably be only one. 

The biggest thing I've learned from this experience is to be much more flexible.  I've been used to her taking her naps like clockwork.  Now I just have to work a bit harder to read her needs.  It is difficult though as she shows no tired signs!  She would go and go all day if I let her...she would just then meltdown at bed    So of course we are avoiding that!

I'm sorry I haven't been able to offer anyone advice!  I feel like I am just receiving at this point!  But once my lo gets through this hopefully I will be able to offer some good advice!

[NiknLily]

Sorayas mom, I think you'll be great with the advice, your doing so much better than I ever did.  Mine really was the how not to do it 2-1 transition, but you learn from your mistakes right 

[amy123]

Just wanted to post that it was a reasonably good nap day today!  Good a.m. nap and short p.m. cat nap with a bit early bedtime.  Thanks newmum and laurarose for feedback.  feel completely validated that i can trust my instincts in knowing whether or not she's going back to sleep after waking from a nap and don't need to try to force it.  I did spend extra time soothing to sleep for p.m. nap, b/c I knew she was tired, and she finally went down. 

laura - sorry about the early wake-up this a.m.   hope you are getting some ZZZZ's tonight!! 
amy

     

[LauraRose]

Well, I'm up late (almost 11!) but that's because DH and I got to go out tonight!  Just wanted to say, thanks newmum for the tip about shifting DS's day.  How long do you think I should wait to be sure he's "stable."  His naps have been pretty good for about a week and his NW have stopped.

Here was today's schedule:
5:15 wake
9 nap (2.5 hrs!!!!!!!!)
2:45 nap (1.5 hrs!!!!!)
6:15 bed

He has never napped like that in his life!! (Can you tell I'm excited?)

[NiknLily]

Amy - great that things are going well

LauraRose - Also fantastic news that things are going so well for you too.  I'd say if hes had a good week and has no NW's then now may be as good a time as any.  One things for sure nothing stays the same very long when transitioning so best to take the opportunity when you get it 

[skatty]

Hello everyone 

We are having a mixture of 2 and 1 nap days and it seems to be working for us. I have realised that if L wakes up from her nap after 1pm she wont take a catnap so it's the days she wakes early (before 6.30am) that we have 2 naps.

I want to ask opinions! Leorah averages a 12 to 13 hour night but usually only naps 1 -1hr 20, I usually leave her until near the 2 hour mark and she will sometimes go back to sleep but other times just chat to herself, is this ok? She loves her night sleep and lets us know if she is ready for bed early and we have had no NWs and our mornings are getting later, usually around 7am. L has never been a baby that took regular naps and 2 1.5hr naps in a day are almost unheard of so I can't see her ever having a 2hr+ nap consistantly. I know I could try and shorten her night to tag onto her day but I find she is a  bit moody if she has less than a 12 hour night and to be honest a 1+ hour nap has always been celebrated at our house! She always wakes happy and is then raring to go again and we hardly ever have any late evening fussiness, I think I have answered my own question haven't? While it works i think we'll stick with it, I'm loving it when she sleeps late and DH brings me a coffee to bed before I need to get up in the morning 

Laura Rose those are award winning naps  Sounds like DS is catching up on his sleep and getting back into a good routine 

[LauraRose]

Skatty-Those are award-winning mornings! (coffee in bed...mmmm)

Newmum-thanks for the quick reply. You are so right that nothing stays the same for long.  I'll be trying the shift soon.

[amy123]

Laura - definitely excellent naps!  we need to enjoy those while they last, eh? 

Skatty - sounds like things are working wonderfully.  i agree - why change it?  I've also noticed that my dd is more likely to have 2 naps when she's up between 6 and 6:30 and not later.  Here's a question for everyone, though...

When she does wake early (6 a.m. this morning after a 7 p.m. bedtime), she's often showing tired signs after only an hour or maybe two.  A yawn here and there.  Then increasing fussiness/frustration.  I want to respect her cues, but at the same time think it could throw things way off to be putting her to bed after only 1 1/2 or 2 hours of A time.  I've been thinking I actually need to be working to increase her A time in the a.m., not decrease it!  I remember going from the 3 hr. EASY to 4 hour, and if I followed her cues she wouldn't be tired enough and would wake earlier from naps.  I finally just started keeping her up and she got into a groove.  I know it should be a balance between stretching her by 10-15 minutes and not letting her get too OT, but there's a big gap between the start of tired signs (1 1/2 hrs. after wake) and the amount of A time we're shooting for (3 1/4 or 3 1/2 hrs after wake).

 

[skatty]

Amy, I have exactly the same problem! If I follow DD's cues and let her nap earlier she has a shorter nap, just enough to refresh her  The other day she woke just after 6am (typically on the day I wanted her to sleep in because she had playgroup) so I kept her in the cot until 6.30 and then because she was at playgroup she was very distracted and busy, nearly fell asleep on the 10 min car ride home but I stuffed a cereal bar down her and she was asleep by 11.05am and slept for an hour and 10 mins which is her usual nap time give or take 15 mins. I would recommend trying to distract DD but try not to have the whole morning too strenuous, we go for an early walk (if it's too late she'll fall asleep) and maybe watch a Baby Einstein dvd together but best of all play in the garden as the fresh air keeps her fresh but when it comes to nap time she is really ready for it. I also find when DD has less nighttime sleep she gets more easily bored and frustrated hence the yawns and fussing but can usually manage to get quite close to her normal A time without becoming OT.

Katt 

Oh yes and I should also point out that last week DD had a day when she could barely reach 3 hours A time and we thought maybe she was sick but the next morning a molar had poked through so could also be some teething 

[LauraRose]

Amy, I agree with Katt.  DS had really sleepy cues for a week or 2 as I was pushing for a 9:45-10:00 am nap.  Then, he just got it and now is awake easily until then. It's all about gently encouraging them toward progress. =) It helps a lot to be busy. But, again, for us the early bedtime saved the day (and night) to prevent OT.

[NiknLily]

You ladies are terrific at helping and support each other, I think my work here is nearly done 
I totally agree with giving them some down time to help through the morning, sit and read, watch DVD on sofa together, walk in pushchair, anything to give them 20-30Min's rest without them sleeping.  Something else to bear in mind that as they get older you can rely less and less on the obvious signs like yawning etc.  It almost comes to a point where clock watching is preferable to cues, although general temperament is probably your best guide now.

Something I am just starting to do, on the advice of another BW who's LO is just a little older than Lily, is start teaching her how to relax to help her control her own temperament by taking down time when she needs it.

[LauraRose]

new mum-- Thank you so much for your help! I am planning to shift DS starting tomorrow.  I just re-read your earlier instructions and want to make sure I am understanding correctly.  This is his basic schedule now:

5:15 or 5:30 awake in crib
6:00 BF
7:45 breakfast
9:30-10:00 nap (1.25-1.5 hrs.)
12:30 lunch
2:00 nap (1.25-1.5 hrs.)
5:15 dinner
5:45 BF
6:00 bed (asleep usually by 6:30)

You mentioned earlier that if he wakes at 5:15 he should go to bed for the night by 5:45.  Would my first "shift" day look something like this?--
5:30 wake
6:10 BF
10:10 nap
12:30 lunch
2:10 nap
5:15 dinner
6:00 BF
6:10 bed (or should this be earlier?)

You probably understand that I am a little nervous about changing things (no NW in over a week!)

[NiknLily]

As that routine is working then don't worry about bringing bedtime back.  I think at the time I mentioned it was because his mornings where getting earlier and on some days I would of bought bedtime back to shorten day and give more opportunity for night sleep.  However, it looks like an 11hr night/13hr day suits him so don't change it.

Above 'shift routine' looks good but don't forget to move his meals on by 10Min's too, so thats breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus any snacks if you tend to have them at same time.  Sorry if that wasn't clear above.  Basically all of these factors in his routine provide markers for his brain and body to know whats coming next and when, so by shifting them all forward your tricking the brain and body into moving its internal clock forward by 10Min's at a time.

I can appreciate your concern, but it worked a treat for DD which is why I'm happy to pass it on 

The only other thing I would say is try to keep that first morning A time low key so he copes easier with the extra 10Min's A time.

[amy123]

Think I hear dd waking, but have a quick question...
if we're not able to go by cues as much as clock, how do we know whether to shoot for 3 1/2 hr A time or 4 or more?

today:
6 a.m.  - wake
9:30 - nap  (1 hr. 20 min)
2:45 - tried nap - didn't fall asleep until 3 p.m. (took lots of soothing)
3:45 - waking now. 

how long A until bedtime?

she's shouting up a storm - gotta run!