Author Topic: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3  (Read 56694 times)

0 Members and 14 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline jmoran544

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Posts: 144
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #180 on: November 20, 2007, 18:17:48 pm »
We are in the midst of getting rid of some sleep porblems, but seem to be gaining others.

The kiddos, (14 month old twins), were having nw's and were waking up around 5/5:30. They are transitioning to 1 nap. Some days they sleep through, between 1.5-2 hrs. Sometimes they take a catnap in the am in the car, on our way to doing errands. I am trying to put them down at around 12pm now.

The last two nights dh and I put them to bed at 6:30. It eliminated the nw's and our dd slept until 5:30, ds until 6- so 11-11.5 hrs. YAY! But ds is waking up from his nap at about 1 hr into it and crying hard. Yesterday he took 30 min to go back to sleep. He slept an additional 40 min. He woke up again today and is still crying after 15 min. He took a 15 catnap in the car from 9:45-10.

I would like ds to be able to sleep his entire nap without waking, and for both of them to wake up closer to 6:30am. Any suggestions with how to get there? I am willing to put them to bed at 6:30pm for a while, but I'd rather they go down at 7:30.


Offline NiknLily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 82
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2693
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #181 on: November 20, 2007, 19:39:31 pm »
Hi lindaloulou.  At 16months I would say she is ready to transition to 1 nap.  The fact that she is dropping the pm nap adds to this.  I would say she is OT due to the long afternoons when she is not taking the afternoon nap.  Its a tricky one because in an ideal world you don't want her to be OT when you start to make the transition, however this is seldom the case for this transition.

There are 2 ways you can do the transition, personally I favour the 1st one, but for some the 2nd one works better.

First way would be to start extending her morning A time 10-15Min's every 3 days or so until you get her doing closer to 5hrs A time in the am and let her sleep as long as she wants for this nap.  The idea here being that if they are waking at 7am this puts the 1 nap at lunch time, which is where you want it.  You then offer a catnap in whatever way you can in the late pm, just a short one to get her through till bedtime.  Generally a 15min catnap will do her for another 1-1.5hrs A time, 20Min's nap 2-2.5hrs, 30Min's nap 3-3.5hrs.  As she is waking early you should be able to squeeze in a catnap.  If you cant get a catnap in then its early to bed.  So if she only sleeps 1hr 20Min's put her down a good 40Min's early to allow her to tag lost day sleep onto night.  As a rule I would say to offer her the chance to sleep at least 11-11.5hrs at night, so if she is waking at 5am then for now bedtime will need to be no later than 5.30pm.  This early day can be shifted once you get her routine sorted and with any lick once she is less OT the early wakings should improve some on there own.

The 2nd way is to only offer a short catnap in the am of say 30Min's to start, then next nap hopefully a long one roughly 3-3.5hrs later, then when necessary you cut the am nap further to 20Min's and put down for long pm nap 2-2.5hrs later.  The idea here is that you use the early catnap to get a good 5-5.5hrs between wake up and the long pm nap, gradually reducing the catnap until they can go the 5hrs straight from wake up. 

I think as she is doing 4hrs already in the am I would try the first method as she is very nearly there already.

Leslie - Sorry this may contradict what I have said in the past, or what someone else has advised but I'm going to say it anyway ;)  Are you cutting that first nap short or is she waking from it herself.  If your cutting it short I would stop doing so and just let her sleep as long as she wants in the am, then offer a late catnap or early bed, whichever works best.  It sounds like she is OT with those short naps so you may have to work to extend that first nap.  I found W2S most helpful for this when transitioning.

Jmoran - If they are waking at 5/5.30am then 10/10.30am is as late as there nap should be.  6.5hrs A time is too long at there age.  I would stick with the early bedtime, don't worry you wont be putting them to bed this early for ever, just until they have successfully transitioned.  I also wouldn't be worried about them waking from their nap and needing resettling, just do what needs doing for the time being.  I think it may be because they where a little OT before nap, they same way they might wake 45Min's after bedtime if a little OT at bedtime.  I think the fact that they slept well on the earlier bedtime is a great start.  It may not feel like it but your making good progress in the right direction  :)


Offline lesorl

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 825
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #182 on: November 20, 2007, 21:00:25 pm »
New mum-

I'm so glad you're sticking around here...

I'm definitely NOT cutting the 1st nap- she's waking herself.  And then she won't take another nap so late that it sometimes interferes with bedtime.  I've never had success with W2S... about the 20 min mark for a 35 min nap I suppose?

She's OT for sure- but she fights short A time whether OT or not. 

Thanks again for your help,
Leslie

Offline NiknLily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 82
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2693
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #183 on: November 20, 2007, 21:28:29 pm »
Leslie, the trick is not to wake her just make her stir in her sleep.  As she is sleeping such a short nap and providing your presence won't stop her from sleeping would it be worth staying with her so you can be sure when to try W2S, if not I would give 20Min's ago.  I found sometimes that just opening the door was enough to make Lily stir but not wake and other times I thought I would have to shake her to make her stir, not that I did of course ;) 

However you do it, you really need to get her to go back to sleep, even if for just another 15Min's, every little helps.  Do you use PU/PD? or WI/WO? What I do with Lily is do a sort of WI/WO but with a PD in middle so WI/PD/WO.  To start with it doesn't always work but I found that if you stick with it for at least 3 days, doing it for as long as you can to extend the nap probably about 45Min's it does start to work.

The other thing I would try is to pick a day and put her down at say 3hrs A time.  I know you may think no way is she going to sleep then but you may find she will play, cry, play etc and eventually fall asleep.  If she needs you to go to settle her every so often thats fine.  If this does work she should fall asleep earlier than she would normally and it may be early enough for her to not be so OT and take a slightly longer nap, then if you time the 2nd nap right you might get a good day followed by a good night and from there things should improve rapidly.  If that fails, personally I would try keeping her up for 5hrs in the am and put her down for nap.  Lily did this herself one day, she just would not settle for a nap in am at all, I think she had been up since around 5am and didn't go to sleep until 11am (so it was 6hrs for her) but she then slept for nearly 3hrs and it went a huge way to getting her over the OT.  It may seem drastic but sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures.  I know all too well how bad this transition can be  :(


Offline lesorl

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 825
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #184 on: November 20, 2007, 21:36:16 pm »
new mum-

how do I know when to do w2s, timing-wise?

lately i have to rock her to sleep for naps (she has slept longer than 35 mins this way), but i've started pd for nighttime and that's going well.  so if i try the 3 hours A time, she'll only cry.  she never plays in her crib.

thanks again,
leslie

Offline NiknLily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 82
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2693
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #185 on: November 20, 2007, 22:04:13 pm »
That sheds a little more light actually.  If your having to rock her to sleep this could be a factor in the short naps.  The more dependant on you she is to get to sleep the worse she will sleep.  Lily was very similar when she started to transition she also became a nightmare to put down for a nap, bedtime was better, I didn't rock but did plenty of AP and it just kept getting worse.  It was only when I started getting firmer that her sleep started to improve.  I used PD, then gradual withdrawal to get out of the room then followed that up with WI/PD/WO when needed.  As she got better at independent sleep again so her naps got better too.  Don't get me wrong they where still far from perfect but better none the less.  I just got to the point where she was so OT anyway that if she took ages to get to sleep because we where sleep training I hadn't really lost anything iykwim.  I would try putting her down early for her nap and start sleep training, even if it means standing there with your hand on her back for an hour, personally I would do it.  Just to get her sleeping then take it from there.

I would say 20-15Min's before expected wake up time is about the right time for W2S, if its too close to wake up she will already be waking slowly so you are more likely to wake her fully.

Sorry I don't feel like I'm being much help,  I don't have any specific answers for you.  I just found that no matter what I did I needed Lily to sleep more than she was, AP worked for a while and probably did help to get through the OT but eventually I had to get her back on track for things to continue to improve.


Offline lesorl

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 825
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #186 on: November 21, 2007, 14:28:09 pm »
New mum-

Again let me thank you for sticking around!  You're actually being very helpful- and I've pm'd Skatty as well as I know she had similar problems with Leorah.

Today I put her down at 3.5 A time, and I'm going to try W2S about 20 mins in.  We'll see how that goes...

I do need to begin PD again for naps - I dread it, it's so draining, and Thanksgiving is tomorrow so I'll think we'll wait until the weekend when my husband will be home (though he won't take part in PD).

I keep thinking the same thing- AP to get her through the OT but I don't think it's working.

Thanks again,
Leslie

Offline October

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 14
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 626
  • Our smiley girl !
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #187 on: November 21, 2007, 14:53:03 pm »
Hi New Mum & Leslie,

This is all very insightful stuff ! My LO (born early at 30/31 weeks) is now doing 4-4.25hrs A time first thing and I'm reading your posts thinking the longer am nap is definitely our best best. He has ALWAYS preferred longer am naps.

We've been having persistent EWs of 5-5.30am too and only in the last day has he woken later, at 5.45am ! Yippee ! I am trying to move his day forward by about 15 mins. every 2-3 days and this later waking may be the rest....of course, he's teething so who knows if it'll last.

DH let him sleep 1hr 45 mins. yesterday for his am nap while I was at a scan and he had another 30 mins. at the 4hr mark in the pm. He hated me waking him but went down really well by 7pm. In the past I've been waking him around the 1 hr mark.

New Mum, I guess in a while when he goes down nearer 11am (we're currently only at 10am) and sleeps 2+ hrs the pm nap (even a catnap) just won't happen and we'll be back to 5.30pm bedtimes ? I've had decent successes with those in the past so they don't instil the fear in me they can in others !!!!!!!

Anyway, I'll be back to chat more another time. Thanks for the help so far !

Deb     :-*
Lilypie 1st Birthday Pic" width="100" height="80" border="0<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/QvGYm3.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline lindaloulou

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 0
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 39
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #188 on: November 21, 2007, 16:14:57 pm »
New Mum-

Thanks for the rundown for me. Yesterday was better. She slept for 1 hour 10 minutes in the AM then about 45-hour in the PM. She was in bed at 6:45, asleep a bit abfter 7, but she slept until 5:45. I put her down for a nap at 9 and she is asleep at 9:15. I am hoping to get her caught up on the OT before really screwing her up with travel tomorrow. What do you think would be better? To give her her AM nap and not her PM nap tomorrow, or skip the AM nap and nap her in the early afternoon when we get to our destination. We are flying, but I can either leave at 9:45Am (skip AM nap, put her down at about 12:45ish) or 12:45 (let her take an AM nap and then skip the PM nap entirely). Either way in not ideal, I am just trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils...what do you think?

And, in regards to transitioning to one nap, how is it possible to work the transition so they are not OT? Start on a day when they have had a good nights sleep?? This is confusing to me.

Thanks again!

Lindaloulou  

Offline lib

  • New & Learning The Ropes
  • *
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 35
  • My gorgeous Lily!!
  • Location: UK
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #189 on: November 21, 2007, 18:36:59 pm »
Hi everyone
Leslie - just to let you know my DD was waking after 30 mins for the pm (long) nap - and at first I just gave up and got her up.  Now I manage to get her back to sleep by just putting my hand on her head, and gradually withdrawing it - I don't pick her up or anything as I find it just wakes her up even more.  I do have to stick around in the room for 10 mins, but I figure it worth it to get her over the early wakings.  Not sure if something like that would work for yours? 

Sadly it doesn't always work for her early wakings in the morning!  I have had a number of EW's over the past few days now, the worst one being 4.30am 2 days ago.  I seem to be in a vicious cycle at the moment where mornings are getting earlier and she is getting more and more OT.  Anyway I have decided to be more regimented with a routine and follow NewMum's, Deb's and LauraRose's advice - with nap times, length of am nap (30 mins only) with a longer pm nap and set bedtime.  Please let this work!!!!!!!!!!!  I'll let you all know in a week.
Thanks for all your help everyone (esp NewMum) - reading all the posts has helped me get thro this difficult period.
lib
<img src="http://b2.lilypie.com/an540.png" alt="Lilypie 2nd Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline NiknLily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 82
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2693
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #190 on: November 21, 2007, 19:13:24 pm »
Deb - it looks like your doing a fantastic job, your bang on with cutting the pm nap back so as to not interfere with bedtime and absolutely right when his nap is closer to 11am and hopefully around the 2hr mark you will have to drop the catnap and go for an early bedtime.

Lindaloulou - personally I would skip the am nap and aim to put her down in pm, hopefully for a good nap, but even if that turns out to not be such a good nap at least then you can just put her to bed early, in fact whatever you do I would aim to have her in bed no more than 12hrs after wake up time, hopefully that way she will tack any lost sleep onto her night sleep.  As for how is it possible to transition without them getting OT? thats the million dollar question around here  ;)  Some do just sail through, for most though its the toughest transition of naps they make  :(

Good luck next week Lib, I've got my fingers crossed for you  ;)


Offline lesorl

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 3
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 825
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #191 on: November 21, 2007, 23:37:33 pm »
What a bust today was...

5:57am Awake
S 9:22am-9:59am, then extended (on me!) until 11am
S 2:22pm-2:59pm couldn't extend
S 6:45pm, after 50 mins of PD

I'm not having fun!

October- I'm certainly no expert, but if your 1st nap is longer, I would try to keep moving that up.

Lib- when do you put your hand on her back?  My lo seems to jolt wide awake b/w 32 and 38 mins.

Thanks everyone for the help,
Leslie

Offline October

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 14
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 626
  • Our smiley girl !
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #192 on: November 22, 2007, 12:13:52 pm »
Ladies,

If my LO woke at 5.57am I'd be ecstatic ... but I hear your pain on those short naps ! Our issue is with EWs and after a few better times nearer 6am (best was 5.45am but I'll take what I can get !) today he woke at 4.50am !!!!!!! We had 2 good days of am naps at 9.45/10am for 1hr 40/45 and then a pm nap at 3.30pm(ish) for 30 mins. Bedtime was 7pm.

Should I be bringing bedtime back a tad so he gets a longer night sleep ? Is he sleeping too long with 2 naps this length ? Maybe his A times are a bit too much in reality ? I just don't know anymore.....

I tried to re-settle him this am for the first time in months and it was a disaster. His chatter/yells turned to crying and we still had him out of the crib by 6.30am.

This is getting me down in my last few months of pregnancy 'cos I know what March will bring.

HELP !

Deb  :(
Lilypie 1st Birthday Pic" width="100" height="80" border="0<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/QvGYm3.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline NiknLily

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 82
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2693
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #193 on: November 22, 2007, 13:18:28 pm »
Hi October
I wouldn't say he is getting too much day sleep.  But definitly bring bedtime early, I mean EARLY.  I always allow DD to get at least 12hrs at night, thats because she always did sleep a 12hr night, some need less than this but I would say to offer the chance to do a 11.5hr night.  So if wake up in the am is 5am then bedtime on a good days napping would be 5.30pm, if the naps have been bad then put to bed earlier still to allow them to take lost nap sleep at night.  The trouble I found is that when some LO's start to wake early it just shifts there hole day very quickly in that direction and too keep them up longer in the evening hoping they might wake later rarely works.  The good news is that you can shift the day back again to normal time if you are getting fairly consistant nap times.  I have decribed how to do this several times on this thread so have a flick through and you should find it.  If not I can post it again, no probs.

Leslie  :( I know how you feel  :-*


Offline October

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 14
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 626
  • Our smiley girl !
  • Location:
Re: anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3
« Reply #194 on: November 22, 2007, 22:34:41 pm »
Fume. We tried earlier bedtime after 2 naps just over an hour each today and he is still awake after a meltdown at 5.30pm in the crib. He may be teething though so we'll find out once his Advil wears off. Unlike most LOs mine doesn't display many symptoms except ear pulling and a touch of fussiness. Tonight he pulled on his ears and Dh told me once he was in the crib. I went in to give him Advil and WW3 began.

Oh dear. Another lesson learned. Tmrw's another day right ?

Hope you ladies are having better luck.

Deb   :-*
Lilypie 1st Birthday Pic" width="100" height="80" border="0<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/QvGYm3.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />