Support for dropping the nap part 11

[rachsk8]

Uh oh think we've gone off track :-/ shes been really cranky all day today after a 12h night so 6.20 wu.

Oh dear.  Do you think it's OT for sure Aishi, or maybe 'normal' toddler crankiness?  Just asking because I have trouble telling sometimes.  My DS had a good 12hr + sleep last night, but seems lethargic and a bit tired today, not sure what it's about, but I think we will push on with quiet time instead of offering a nap as half the time I find it makes it worse in the long-run.  Gah who knows.

In the months after dropping the nap, how do you handle when your LO's get tired and cranky, instead of naptime?  Any tricks to perk them up in the afternoon when they are a bit grouchy?

Another random question, but do your kids yawn a lot, and do you take that as a sign of needing to offer a nap, or just take it as part of the process of this transition?

[Aishi]

She's ot for sure normal crankiness doesn't result in the weepy meltdowns she's been having...but nap was a mistake. She had a singing nw from 4.20-5 and then wu was 7.15. So probably back to 6.30 bt...

Re your questions if books and toys in cot don't work for quiet time, I let her lie in my bed with me to look at pictures on my phone or watch cartoons, to on couch helps, reading books, Lego and giving snacks when she's a bit grouchy all helps...

[trimbler]

We have a long time in the park with lunch after preschool as DS needs plenty of time to run off energy. But then our afternoons are pretty quiet at home, really so dd can nap inside, but it does also seem to be good for DS. We tend to have a couple of books whilst dd feeds, DS has a snack and drink to keep  him going and often has a short calm play with dd, he also tends to lie on the floor playing with his cars denying that he's feeling a bit tired! I think for him the park trip helps as it's much easier for him to play more restfully if he's already used up his physical energy. Otherwise we have grumpy and full of energy! Not that it's all quiet, when dd is napping he usually finds some more energy for some sort of superhero role play

Yesterday DH was home late so I let him play quietly in his room, all ready for bed, whilst I did DD's BT routine. Went into his room for a story and lights out, to find him already fast asleep with the lights on! Guess he's still got some adjusting to do... So far this week we've alternated grumpy and happy days, don't really know how that correlates with sleep as he doesn't always get up when he's awake, but again, guess he's just adjusting.

[Mattsmummy]

Oh boy…we are in a mess…
We decided it was time for M to give up his soother. He is 39 months so it was well over due…

He has actually done very well without it with the exception of he also decided that he would NOT nap at daycare anymore since we took it away last weekend.

He was taking anywhere between a 40 minute to 1 hour nap every day at daycare and has since decided that without his soother, he isn’t napping anymore.

He is SO massively ot and his behaviour is just awful. He is falling asleep with no problem at all at night but waking early and it’s making for a very short night.
I thought it would be a more gradual transition going from 1-0 but he has simply decided he’s done with it.  I remember going from 2-1 and it was bad and took a while and I was not looking forward to this…and here we are right smack in the middle of it.

So, EBT???  He doesn’t (or hasn’t in the past) tacked on but I think I need to catch him up. He has been going down for about 7:30/7:45 but waking up anywhere between 5:30/6:00.

At his age, how long should his day be? He does tend to get OT quite easily but has never given long nights…this is new territory for me so I’m out of my element…

[rachsk8]

Aw Mattsmummy, hugs coming your way, this can be such a difficult transition... I think day length really depends on a lot of factors. If he's not coping with 12hr days (or needs to catch up) I'd move half an hour earlier BT at least. my DS is not good at tacking on but is finally starting to use ONS to catch up albeit slowly. I'm not an expert at this and constantly double guessing myself but hoping it helps to know your not alone in this one. Hopefully the others have some helpful advice re hours etc.

[Buttonbobs]

Hey mattsmummy, hugs, it's quite a shock when these LOs make snap decisions like this. My DD is 37 months old but she has not napped for over 6 months now, but she sleeps between 11.5 and 13 hours at night, depending on what we've been up to.

After nursery she is always OS and there's nothing I can do to get her in bed earlier so we tend to get short nights but at the end of the week she catches up with longer nights.

E never managed EBT either until she dropped her last nap, so you may find that he will cope with EBT now, if you can maybe try a half hour early and see how you get on. But like rachsk8 has said, it is a bit of trial and error really. Good luck x

[rachsk8]

After nursery she is always OS and there's nothing I can do to get her in bed earlier so we tend to get short nights but at the end of the week she catches up with longer nights.

This is interesting Buttonbobs... do you just push on with a bit of OT and grouchiness and see how it evens out over the week?  I tend to panic when we get a short night and feel like I "should" make him nap... (or do a car-nap)  Maybe I'm jumping/reacting too fast?  Hh started this transition about a year ago (!!!!) So he generally has NND's now, with the odd catch-up nap in the car.  I wonder if I am a bit up-tight when we get a short night and should try and take a step back and wait to see what happens in the next night or two?  What are your thoughts?

[Buttonbobs]

We do, yes. Although for us it is a little different as she is further down the line. When she first started dropping naps we did it on days at home and let her nap at nursery for quite a long time after she dropped home naps. That way we could be flexible on days when my parents or I were looking after her and able to read her signs. We tried doing a quiet time, but it has never really worked for her, she will nowadays happily watch a film or something mid-afternoon, or cuddle for stories, which is great.

I do find she self-regulates and sometimes has a catch up nap mid day if we're out in the car, or she'll for to bed early and sleep longer at the end of the week.

[rachsk8]

That's interesting... How far down the track are you now?  I have noticed DS is getting better at handling OT, he's grumpy, but not falling to pieces all over the place, so perhaps he can handle it even if I think he can't!?  He had sometimes done huge sleeps even though he will only usually do 11-12hrs ONS - his record was 14hrs - I nearly fell over backwards!  That was after a huge week, so I guess he maybe can regulate better than I think he can....

Yes, quiet time here never works for us in bed or even in the bedroom so it involves watching a movie or playing with blocks or something not too stimulating... He just won't lie still long enough to recharge in bed!!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Feeling or way through this transition still....  Jack's been unwell so has been napping for 1.5 hours every day for the last week and doing 11 hours at night as well.  It was like having a normal toddler instead of a LSN one - lovely!  Back to his bad old ways now though  

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has done this transition without significantly capping naps?  I'm starting to think that might work best with J as he seems to need a good catch up after a NND.  I'm not sure - we were just getting the hang of NNDs when he got ill, so I'm not sure how much of the OTness he had when he was ill was virus related, and how much was building anyway from NNDs and capped naps together, iykwim?  But in the process of getting him better, I've moved his nap and bedtime earlier and although he's back to doing slightly short naps and nights and the odd NND, he's generally doing better than he was before.  His day currently looks like:

WU: 6-6.15ish (in bed til 6.20)
Nap: 12.30 / 12.45ish for 1 hr probably
BT: 7 - will chat to himself til 7.30 if a bit UT

If he naps after 2.30 it tends to affect his nights so I was thinking of sticking with the earlier nap time and if he fights it, try again at 1.15 / 1.30ish, and if he still fights it then do a NND?  Or should I keep trying til 2ish and just always wake by 2.30?  He won't lie and chat to himself - if he doesn't want to nap he won't tolerate being in bed so I don't really want to spend an hour and a half each day repetitively putting him to bed and doing WIWO.  Or should I just move his nap a bit later (back to 1ish) and just give him that one chance to nap?

Sorry, bit of a rambling post.  Does it make sense?! Anyone else done anything similar?  It's probably a moot point since last time he napped for any length of time at 12.30 he started shortening his naps to 35/40 minutes, in which case I'll have to push them back anyway, but just in case anyone has a story to share....

[Aishi]

So has anyone come across sleep needs increasing after transitioning to no nap? After the fiasco when I let her nap recently her bt has beem a bit all over the place :-/ she had an 8 pm bt a few days ago after a nap and wu moved to 8, then 7.20-8.30, 7.25-8.50 today. She had brief crying nws where she needed me these nights and she was sooo cranky today and seemed ot still (). She was asleep by 7.20 again today so only 10.5h night....I hope this doesnr lead to ewu (before . I like the later bt and wu- it fits better with family life and ds's bt...

so has anyone else noticed this in their los?

[trimbler]

Aishi - DS's TS is definitely more now than when he was napping, haven't quite settled yet but we have fixed WU for preschool and also to make it the same time as DD, otherwise one will wake the other anyway.

LLJ - we have HSN here, or at least, short A times all the way through, but we found when the nap was refused we could just move it later, for a few months anyway. But DS was happy to chat to his teddies in bed. Anyway if I were you I'd try 1pm...

[Buttonbobs]

Rach, E hasn't napped apart from the odd car nap very occasionally for several months now. I would say we started our 1-0 journey just after Christmas last year.

Aishi - we didn't cap naps at all as if really didn't suit E. We just moved them slowly later as per her sleep signals and tiredness and let her sleep as long as she wanted for naps (she always used to wake dead on 2 hours) and then would put down for BT about 4 hours after WU from nap. She didn't mind the short A to bed at first but in the summer she wanted to nap late and then didn't want to go to bed until 9.30/10pm so we shifted and let her go a full day without a nap. At first I timed these days for when I wanted to be out anyway, then it ended up being a couple of days a week.

The last naps to drop were on nursery days where she still napped at 12.30 with all the other kids - she was only sleeping for abou an hour, waking grumpy and not wanting to sleep at night. These are still our hardest day even without a nap as she is OS by BT, but we're getting there.

She definitely sleeps longer nights now than when she was napping. I think just before the drop we were averaging 11.5 hours in 24, now some dys it's 12.(/13 hour nights, sometimes 11.5 - she tends to catch up at the end of the week.

I hope that helps

N x

[TB9]

LL&J - DD is hanging on to nap by doing 10-10.5hr nights and it is working really well.  So her day usually looks like this
6-6:30am wakeup
1-2:30 Nap max, usually nap at 1:15 or 1:30 until 2:30
8-8:30pm bed

I have been waking at 2:30 to allow the longer nap and just doing bt later, because neither of us can handle no naps right now!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thanks everyone.  I think things are settling here after illness - we may have a bit of a pattern emerging but we'll see.  I think J will do at least one NND at nursery, but cos that's then a long and busy day, and he doesn't sleep well the next day at nursery either,  he's then quite happy to nap at home.  Fingers crossed anyway! So he's doing something very similar to your DD2, tink, but with a slightly earlier BT and WU, and with one NND a week atm. I've moved his nap nearer to 1pm as well cos predictably it was starting to shorten at 12.30. No nap refusals at home this week though So I think I'll stick with the routine I posted above (but with slightly later nap) for a while now.  Well, as long as J lets me, anyway!