Please Help-Bedtime Issues Worsening-ENW and NW

[lily_layne]

(((hugs))) Days like that are tough.

Is it on 2.5h A time that he's refusing? You may find that he doesn't need the A time shortened very much after a short nap. Some LOs (mine included) often don't.

[Shiv52]

If you stick him in and he's happy I'd just leave him and not try to convince him to sleep. Keep an eye in case it's UT and goes on and on. But otherwise I'd just do your sleep routine and put him down and let him at it. As they get a bit older they can take a bit longer to settle and if he's happy to lie and roll about let him try and work it out xx

Hugs xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank you! I try to remind myself that it's a phase and that I'm doing the best I can.

Yea all of a sudden he's refusing 2.5 A. Like I do the same nap routine wind down, the lay him down. However, he rolls on his stomach and just wants to play and roll. I try to give him plenty of floor time for this so not sure if it's just one of those things that will pass. However, he tried to settle but can't. Then he gets agitated and in the end I APOP. But even that gets hairy bc he is awake and wants to just look around and tried to push himself off of me. PU/PD doesn't work bc he gets worked up when I try to pick him up and soothe him.

He is due for a developmental leap 5 according to Wonder Weeks. Usually it starts at 23 weeks (LO is 22 weeks) but maybe he's getting into it early? Or I'm thinking his day starts UT with a shortened nap and it goes downhill from there.

Last night he had 3 NW with one early in the evening that lasted an hour. It was really hard to get him to sleep and even when I did he kept stirring every two minutes for 20 minutes before finally drifting.

Here's my routine from today thus far:
NW 8:45-940pm, 2:32 am, 4:48 am

WU: 7:57 am
E 8:17
A
S 10:23- 11:34 am(A 2:26; rocked then put him down drowsy while singing; went down fairly easy after I got him drowsy since he was wide awake)
E 11:59 am
A
S 2:10- 3:40 pm (A 2:35; wired and would not go down. Crying hard. Tried everything had to rock him to sleep.)
E 4:03
A
S 6:14- (A 2:34; didn't settle kept wanting to push up and roll from tummy to back; got agitated. I waited 10-15 minutes to see if he would settle. Finally jiggled him to sleep.)

[JennVanessa1083]

Update: last night we had 5 NW with one earlier that lasted 1.5 hrs. I'm being consistent nonetheless with WU even thought night is all over the place. I tried an earlier BT and that backfired. Perhaps UT, OT, or maybe developmental.

[Shiv52]

Ugh what a night.  SOrry hun I've been awol. 

What is your gut telling you?   How are you resettling the NWs? 

[JennVanessa1083]

Lol it's ok! I appreciate the constant help!

Ok so my gut is telling me he could benefit from a push in A. I feel he starts out UT then either ends the day UT or OT. The last two days his morning nap has been broken (wakes between 38-42 minutes) and it gets increasingly harder to resettle. Even though he resettles it still doesn't add up to 1.5 maybe 1:15-120. I also think it's developmental bc he's at the prime week for a wonder week so that can be contributing to the naps but the NW have been happening for awhile.

Depending when NW are, I feed or I try shh pat. If that doesn't work bc he's all over the place; I'll resort to rocking. PU/PD is too stimulating for him. He either pushes me off of him or gets very agitated.

My question would be should I push a tad bit? By how much? I was thinking 5-10 minutes but not sure if it's enough. If the nap is broken but still fulfilled do I extend next A or do I wait until first nap is seamless the push?

He settles really well at 2:26 A to the minute sometimes closer to 2.5 but still doesn't do a full nap unless it was a bad night and he's really tired. The second nap ends up longer bc o APOP so it leads me to believe that makes him more UT for the evening then has his hour-1.5 nigh waking early in the evening. My other thought is maybe making the A after CN a tad longer but not sure if I should do both the stretching of first A and A before BT or do one at a time to see what works.

What do you think? At this point I'm just shooting in the dark ha! The great news is he's self settling again with shh pat!! I was scared he was forgetting! So that's a big step in the right direction.

[Shiv52]

Great news he is settling again!!!

I've looked over the last few posts and I think he does need a bump in A time. 38-42 minutes would have been UT naps here. I'd push to 2.40 for that first A time. If you get a decent nap with maybe one waking you can resettle then push for the next one too. If not stick to 2.30. That seem ok? 

I get the impression he is just going to do better on two naps so if you can work toward building the A time up that'll get him there. I think the CN is causing issues and it's hard to know whats OT and UT. So once you can get to 3 hour A time you can look at dropping that CN and do

Wake up
3 hours A time
Nap 1.5
3 hours a time
Nap 1.5
3 hours A time
Bed

So much easier!!!!!

[JennVanessa1083]

Shiv!!!! It's like you read my mind!

After I replied to your last post, I started thinking what if my DS is moving towards getting rid of the CN? I started going through other threads about dropping CN and when to do it etc. I just thought hmmm I think it would be SO much easier if he did two naps. Crazy thing is I just had to APOP the CN bc he was fighting it hard and then started crying. I can't remember when he actually found it this hard. It's like the pieces started coming together.

The I just read your post talking about moving towards the CN...brilliant!! I'm so for that plan!

Ok so I will start stretching that A tomorrow. In general, how long does it take to work up to 3 hours A? Also do I shorten the CN since I will be at 2:40? Of course, given that all A times end up at 2:40 or more. I guess I am wondering what the in between routine would look like until the CN is gone?

I am actually excited to get rid of the CN. I believe it does cause issues for bed.

[Shiv52]

Great minds

I had a horrendous time getting rid of the CN with my DD1. It was Weeks and weeks of faffing and APing it and then bedtime being really late then OT if she wouldn't take it. Awful time. Since then I've done every transition quickly although I know that's not for everyone. But both of mind did better with set naps from 5 months on. With my DD2 once she was resisting the CN I got that A time upped over a week or so then that was that. On two naps much easier.  She needed the odd CN if naps were rubbish or we were out but on the whole both did better with more set times.

But why don't you do 2.40 for 3 days and see where you're at.   He seems to be managing the A time ok?   Like he's not falling apart and exhausted is he?

[JennVanessa1083]

  I hope the transition will be smoother for DS!

He seems to handle A times really well. I haven't done huge leaps or anything but the most I get is whines to put him to sleep then sometimes a few tears trying to settle.

I am ok with the plan. I definitely don't want to push too hard the end up with a bigger disaster yk? So I was skimming through threads and I notice when people up their A to 2:40-2:45, they start shortening the CN. I was thinking of doing the same maybe 15-20 minutes. Is that a better route rather than staying with 30 min CN?

And the age old question: in general if I were to shortened the CN to 15-20 minutes; what would be a good A to aim for before BT. I can tweak it if it doesn't work that way, I'm just thinking a starting point.

Tonight I tried 1.5 after a 27 minute CN (he woke up on his own) and he woke up 40 minutes after BT. Have no idea what that means, but I didn't get an hour long NE either so that was good.

[Shiv52]

LOL the transition with my DD2 was much better as I did more set times and was consistent rather than chopping and changing.  Mine I later learned never gave reliable cues!!!

I would shorten the CN.  If you don't then you need a very long A time after.  If you shorten it then you can cut the A time and hope he'll settle better to bed.

As for the A time after, if you're thinking A time is 2.45 hours then after 20 minutes he'll probably need 1.30??  I'm actually a bit unsure-see why I gave up the CN quickly?   How long did it take to resettle when he woke 40 minutes after BT? 

Hows the teething?

[JennVanessa1083]

Haha My LO is the same! He does sleepy cues out of habit around 1.5 A. He yawns a lot of he's bored too lol I do notice if he gets OT he gets really hyper and giggly.

Ok that makes sense I can try 1.5 after a 20 minute CN and see how it goes. Today I did a 2:40 A; he fell asleep at 2:35 A and short napped so tomorrow I'll be sure to push more. He fell asleep much quicker than expected which is good bc that means I'm on the right track. So I shortened his next A by about 10 minutes.

Teething is still bearable. Just gnawing at everything including my shoulder and DH hand lol
We gave him tylonel before bed just to rule out discomfort. My bigger problem is his obsession to roll in his sleep lol I give him plenty of floor time but he likes to also do it at night. I'm sure it will calm down soon.

It took me 25 minutes to resettle then he woke up again 1.5 hours later which I shh pat to resettle. He woke up a half hour later then I fed. I'm thinking the A after BT was too short.

I would love to give up the CN as quick as possible as it's proving to be the thorn in my side!!

[Shiv52]

So hard to know with teething!!! I blamed teeth on everything with DD1 and she didn't get her first tooth until 14 months!!!!!!!

Fact he fell asleep quicker does show you're on right track.

Keep me posted. Hope bedtime is more peaceful tonight!!!

[lily_layne]

LOL the transition with my DD2 was much better as I did more set times and was consistent rather than chopping and changing.

This is what I did too. I just found it too hard to figure out the A time after a short nap. 1.5 sounds like a good place to start.

[JennVanessa1083]

So true Lillian! I feel like I am forever botching up the A time after a short nap or CN.

So I have had two shortened naps today so I still have a CN for him so I think I have to keep the CN at 30 minutes at most bc then my day is too short for him; it will end up being an 11 or 11.5 day for him. He is not a high sleep needs baby so not sure if a shortened day works for him.

I must say I can't wait to phase out the CN!

So did you both just jump right in into set nap times? What was your schedules like when you did that? Lillian i think you did post yours for me at some point on this thread. I believe your A in the am was shorter than the rest of the A times. How did you come up with this schedule? As I said my LO does NOT have reliable sleep cues and he goes to sleep rather easily even if the A isn't enough but rather close (like today).

I'm sorry I am new to all of this and feel like i need my hand held or something...