Please Help-Bedtime Issues Worsening-ENW and NW

[lily_layne]

tried for 1.5 A right after CN bc he was yawning and fussy. I did his bath and bedtime routine which took 1/2 hr...he woke up 35 minutes later. Do you think his A May have been too long or too short?

This jumped out at me. If you started bath and bedtime routine after he yawned, he was likely OT by the time you got him to bed. If he's yawning, I would skip the bath and get him straight to bed.

When A times are changing I generally just watch for sleep cues and do the next nap whenever LO yawns. DS often surprised me by being able to do a nearly full A time after a short nap.

Like many things, it's hard to say if he'd need a full A after a full nap instead of a CN. My DD would have needed more A whereas DS would have just gone down at his normal time. If he had a full nap because his earlier naps were shorter he was probably catching up a bit and may still go down after a shorter A time. I would just watch for cues and be ready to get him to bed as soon as he yawns.

How are you doing with WU? Are you moving it earlier?

[JennVanessa1083]

Hi Jillian!

Thanks for responding. Well today was a difficult day. He didn't settle for naps and I'm still trying to get him to go to bed. I put him to bed at 8 (after 2 hrs A since his last nap was a full one) but he woke up 50 minutes later. Hasn't slept since. He's definitely OT since he keeps crying upon waking and is hyper.

I havr been gradually getting him up. Hrs at 9 am right now but after tonight I think I just want to do it cold turkey and have a day of OT if it means no more super late bedtimes. I'm exhausted and honestly want my evenings back. I'm trying to figure out if I should do a 8 am WU or just wake him up when he first gets up which is usually around 6:30-7 am. I would have him go back to sleep bc he would fall asleep so late. Do you think this is ok?

[Shiv52]

Personally I'd just start getting him up at 8am and be consistent for 4/5 days and see where you are at.

So something like

8am wake up
10am nap
11.30 wake up

2.30pm nap
4pm wake up

6pm CN
6.30pm wake up

8pm BEd

When establishing a new routine it is ideal to not cut A times too much and push through but obviously not to a silly extent.   

What do you think?

[JennVanessa1083]

Sounds good...question: you have the second nap at 2:30 when wake up is at 11:30 did you mean 1:30? Bc that would give him an A of 3 hrs. Sorry I just need to clarify so bedtime would be pushed up to 7?

[Shiv52]

Sorry yes 1.30. Ah that makes bedtime trickier. The hope is obviously that you get longer naps than 1.5 hours to push the day out.   You could make the CN 40/45 minutes. I don't think I'd aim for a day shorter than 12 hours TBH.

What is usual nap length. Do you think you'll get longer than 1.5?

[JennVanessa1083]

Ohhhhh ok yes that makes sense. Sometimes his naps can go to 1.75 but other times it's only 1hr 15 or 1hr 20. And of course that's after resettling at times.

I could play it by ear to make sure he does 12 he says. I can definitely aim for a shorter A to bed like 1.5 since I realized he has been going down OT. I also wonder if he is needs an earlier routine bc perhaps internally he can't make it to 8 without OT...I read that somewhere. Do you think that's a possibikity?

[JennVanessa1083]

I'm sorry forgot to ask: what can I do to stretch out the day if the naps don't exceed 1.5 bc even with a 45 minute CN it still won't be enough to make bedtime at 8...

[lily_layne]

I just want to do it cold turkey and have a day of OT if it means no more super late bedtimes. I'm exhausted and honestly want my evenings back. I'm trying to figure out if I should do a 8 am WU or just wake him up when he first gets up which is usually around 6:30-7 am. I would have him go back to sleep bc he would fall asleep so late. Do you think this is ok

I get wanting your evenings back. Tough BTs are even harder to take when it's late. It really depends on when you want your day to start. I'm an early bird so 630/7 would be fine with me (and I love a 630 BT but if an 8-8 days fits your family better, I would aim for that. I would think it would be fine to just start waking him at 8 and then just watch for cues for the first nap (he may not make the full A time because of the shortened night). I found both of mine would do a longer nap if they were tired in the morning to putting them down early didn't really throw off the day.

I also wonder if he is needs an earlier routine bc perhaps internally he can't make it to 8 without OT...I read that somewhere. Do you think that's a possibikity

I have read this too. Many sleep experts do recommend a BT of 6:30/7 (usually 8 at the latest) but there's BWers on here (Shiv included) who have had good 8-8 routines. Like most things, it depends on the kid.

what can I do to stretch out the day if the naps don't exceed 1.5 bc even with a 45 minute CN it still won't be enough to make bedtime at 8...

Then BT would be earlier and hopefully he would catch up overnight.

[JennVanessa1083]

Thanks so much Jillian!

I have great news! Finally, last night he went to sleep at 8:30 p.m. I had to hold him through the initial jolts as he was a bit OT from the las nap (A ran a little longer). After that he woke up at 10:30pm for a feed then straight back to sleep until around 2:30 am!! He then slept until 8...I'm hopeful that we will be getting back on track after a month of bad bedtimes and too many NW. So he went from 5-6 NW to only 2!!!

I will continue to work on the 8-8 routine with 2hrs A and see how that goes. It looks like tonight will be a earlier bedtime since he technically woke up at 7:50 am bright eyed and bushy tailed lol

Will keep you all posted in the next couple of days...

His morning nap seems to be great at 2 hrs A..afternoon naps still suffer a bit (wakes up around 35-45 minutes and i resettle in my arms (he usually self-settles in the beginning), but I have hear that the morning nap usually gets established first...does that sound about right?

[Shiv52]

Yes once you get your first nap sorted the rest tend to fall into place. I would try not cut the day short too much as I think it's unrealistic that babies do more than 12 hours and most don't make up unless they've had a lot of A time.   In a week or two he'll likely need another 15 mins so the day will naturally get longer.

Awesome about last night!!! You must feel amazing after all that hard work xx

[JennVanessa1083]

Thank Shiv! I definitely feel amazing and hoping this is the beginning a earlier bedtime for my night owl 😁

Yes I try to make sure he does at least 1.5 nap even if it means I help him transition or I let him finish his nap on me. I do have a question: during his afternoon nap he cries mid nap (35-50 minutes). As I said he doesn't usually have this issue anymore with the morning nap. The A times are pretty much the name and I do the same routine. Why do you think that is?

[Shiv52]

It's hard to know. Could be a little OT or just again him still learning to transition. If you can get the nap extended I really wouldn't worry too much at the minute.   A little bit of OT is inevitable when you're increasing A times and working on wake up times.

Hope you get a decent night tonight. And I also hope you are giving yourself a big pat on the back as it's your hard work that is coming together for you and your little guy xx

[lily_layne]

Yay for a way better night!

but I have hear that the morning nap usually gets established first...does that sound about right?                
                     

Yes it does!

And I also hope you are giving yourself a big pat on the back as it's your hard work that is coming together for you and your little guy xx

^This

I would try not cut the day short too much as I think it's unrealistic that babies do more than 12 hours and most don't make up unless they've had a lot of A time.

This really depends on the LO. DD rarely did 12 hour nights (let alone more) but I could regularly put DS down after an 11/11.5 hr day and he would sleep 13 hours. I would just observe your LO and see if he adds on to his night sleep after a short nap day that way you'll know how early you can do BT if he hasn't napped much. If he has napped decently well, I agree with Shiv to keep aiming for a 12 hr day so I would aim for a 7:45/8 BT tonight.

[JennVanessa1083]

Ladies thank you!

Well tonight was a bit hard. He fell asleep too early for his CN. I tried to keep him awake but he passed out after feeding. The A was only 1.5 and he slept for 50 minutes. So I tried to cut his A shorter since his nap was shorter than an hour. It made his bedtime 7 rather than 7:45-8 which was the original plan. Well that was all a huge mistake because he was NOT tired enough to stay asleep. He kept waking up every 1 until just now (midnight) where it would seem he's down for the night. I will be waking him up at 8 regardless. My question is, and I'm sorry if we covered this, what should have I done in this situation? (in case it happens again which I'm hoping it won't).

I will be looking out for cues for the first A, it's hard bc he still shows cues at 1.5-1.45 but I don't put him down bc it has led to UT nap before. Reading his cues is confusing!

[JennVanessa1083]

Oh and yes patting myself on the back for working hard in improving sleep for my LO. Despite the setback, I am very happy that we are making progress!