anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[laurencopenhaver]

I will try bedtime by 5:45, I usually can't get him to sleep much earlier than that.  Do I set a naptime in stone, say I want him to be sleeping at 10:45 and do that every day no matter how tired he is?  Will 10:30 one day and 11:00 the next just not allow him to get on a good schedule?

[NiknLily]

Lauren - If you want to shift his day up to a better awake time you will only be able to do this if you have set his nap time in stone.  Once things are settled and he is no longer OT then moving his nap according to how tired he is will be no problem, but at the minute you are just trying to fix the OT and EW.  Bear in mind it can take months for things to work themselves out and you not be dealing with OT every other day or so.  DD is 19months and started at 15/16months and has only been what I consider fully transitioned for about a month.

[shimmer]

Hey, all.  Haven't been on these boards in ages.  Quick question.

My LO will be reaching her 2-year birthday next week.  Ths morning, I noticed an EW/NW.  She hasn't had those in forever!  She still takes a 20 minute catnap every morning.  I'm thinking it's time to phase it out.  Should I do it cold turkey?  Problem is, we're moving in a week.  We'll that make it a real struggle? Here's here schedule:

8:30 WAKE
11:00 NAP
11:20  WAKE
2:15 NAP
2:15 WAKE
8:20 BEDTIME

She really does love that morning nap, even though it's so short.  She almost begs for it at around 10:45.  But, after the wakings have started, I knew it would be time, whther she liked it or not.  So do I just cut it cold turkey and in a few days she'll be ok? Again, we're moving to a new place across town this weekend (We're buying our first house!!!!).   

[lindaloulou]

Thanks new mum-

Today LO woke at 5AM coughing...she coughed for about 45 minutes straight (pausing every few seconds of so), but just as I was making her breakfast I peeked at the monitor and she had fallen back asleep (at 6:25). She woke again at 7:05. So, I think today is a great day to try the one nap. Do you think I should go for later than 10 since she woke up later today? Also, since she has this cough is it just a terrible idea to transition her while she is sick? As for your previous post, if she wakes early, will holding her off until 10 Am after a short nights sleep pave the way to an OT short nap?

From what I understand when transitioning you typically have short naps...is this true? How lond did they last with Lily?

Thanks again!

Linda

[laurencopenhaver]

lindaloulou-We've been transitioning for months now and don't get a nap longer that 1.25 hrs.  At first it was 1/2 hr - 45 min.

I put kyler to bed at 5:45 and he laughed until 5:55 when he fell asleep.  Hopefully we'll have a better night.

[jmoran544]

Hey, all. I have questions about the fixed nap and bedtimes. What conditions need to be established first, for the kiddos to bring their wake time later in the am? We ended the night wakings putting the kids down at around 6pm, and they are sleeping 11 hrs or a little more, until about 5:15 or so- though sometimes one kiddo will sleep 11.5. The first two days I put them down about 5hrs later for a nap. The first day dd slept 2.5 hrs- that's after an 11.5 hr night. The next day, she slept 2 hr. Today she slept 1.5 hrs. Today, I did tried to shift the schedule 10 min, but the previous night dd had only 11 hrs sleep, so she ended up being awake 5.5 hrs. DS slept 11.25 hrs last night, went down 5.5 hr after waking for a nap, and slept 1.5 hrs for his nap. He has had a consistent 1.5 hrs for 3 days.


Maybe dd is getting OT again? When you all talk about giving them a fixed nap and bedtime, how does that work if they wake up earlier one morning?  I found that ds will not sleep his nap unless he has had a minimum of 5 hrs A time (otherwise it's 30 min), and even then he wakes at the 40 min mark, cries for 5 min, then goes back to sleep for about another 40 min.

Yesterday looked like this:

wake: ds 5:20, dd 5:40
nap: 10:45  (ds slept 1.5, dd slept 2hr)
bedtime: down at 6:00, both fell asleep by 6:10

Today:
wake: ds 5:30, dd 5:15
nap: 10:55 (ds fell asleep by 11:05, dd not until 11:15)
bed: 5:50 (ds fell asleep by 6, dd not until after 6:15)

[amy123]

I put kyler to bed at 5:45 and he laughed until 5:55 when he fell asleep. 

Lauren - Your days certainly look trying, to say the least, but this quote is sweet as sugar.  I hope all the mental noise from the aggravations of the 2-1 aren't drowning out the sound of him actually laughing himself to sleep!  

jmoran - other than the early-to-bed and early-to-rise, they seem to be sleeping well!  good number of hours at night, and at least 1.5 hours each day.  That's great!! 

Aleesa- waving madly back at ya!  

Linda - <<<hugs>>>  ...  I agree with pushing back the a.m. nap, as I've read that the a.m. nap is actually an extension of night sleep, and by pushing it back later, they will sleep longer in the morning.  I would tend to agree with your instinct that while she's sick might not be a good time to push her or change the routine (ha ha right!?  What routine!? )  Congrats on the new house!!!  Having moved a year ago with my first lo, I know the big change can wreak havoc on them for a few weeks/months.  not easy since you're so incredibly busy with the move itself.  

Leslie - shopping was fun, thanks for asking.    if you want shopping ideas to steal, I have those.  but if you were looking for ideas regarding sleep, i'm still coming up short!

so, 3 days ago, I finally committed to a plan:  Catnap 3.5 hrs after wake-up.  (Wake her after 30 minutes.)  2nd nap after 3.5 hrs A time.  Then 4 hrs A time until bed.  

Day 1:  6.45 a.m. wake after 12.5 hr. night.  I tried to put her down after 3.5 and again at 4.5 hrs. A time, and she wouldn't go down for either (prob. due to good night sleep?).  Gave her a quick lunch and had her down at 5.5 hrs A.  (so the 5.5 I posted about last time wasn't intentional - i had wanted her down much sooner!).  That's when she slept only 45 minutes and that was it for daytime sleep that day.  Got 12.5 hrs. that night, too, though.

Day 2:  6:30 a.m. wake.  Went down easily after 3.5 hrs.  Woke at 30 minutes from deep sleep.  Running a tad late and had her down after about 3.75 hrs. A time instead of 3.5.  She slept only 40 minutes.    Put her to bed 30 minutes early, at 6:45 (after 4 hrs A).  Went right to sleep, but not a good sleep - occasional shouts, fusses, and needing to be re-settled until at least 10 p.m.  Slept only 10.75 hrs!!

Day 3 (today):  5:30 a.m. wake!  UGH!  Got her up at 6.  Not sure if she was dozing for that 1/2 hr.  Put her down at 9:15 a.m. after 3.5 hrs A (give or take 15 min) and she went right to sleep.  Woke her after 30 minutes.  Got her down after 3.75 A time (again about 15 minutes later than planned).  Again got only a 40 minute nap.

She's definitely tired after waking from these 40 min. afternoon naps.  Fussy, laying her head on my shoulder, etc. until she gets a second wind after 1/2 hr. or so.  As a Professional Second Guesser, I'm wondering if maybe she could sleep an hour in the morning instead of waking her after 30 min., then she'd be more rested, and then maybe sleep more than 40 min. in the afternooon?  Or it could be that I've missed my goal of 3.5 hrs A and put her down the last two days at 3.75 and she was a tad OT?  Tomorrow will be more attentive.  Or maybe I am going in too soon when she wakes at the 40 min. mark?  Maybe I need a visit to the PD boards.      (Do you see why dh absolutely refuses to engage w/ me in these discussions?)

Well, unless someone sees something I'm missing, I will stay the course at least another 4 days.  I just thought the point of waking her from the a.m. nap was that she'd be need to catch up on the sleep in the p.m. nap, but instead she's only getting a total of about 1hr10min. for the whole day.

Sending good sleep vibes to everyone!
Amy  

 

[Aly Mac]

don't know what to tell  you Amy!!  I've given up talking to dh about this too.  Last night L was up from 2.30-4.30am and again at 6.30.  She's so tired, I wasn't going to wake her, knowing that I could pay for it tomorrow.  Maybe I'm weak, but after such a bad night's sleep, I feel cruel waking her up. she slept 1hr from 9-10 and now out like a light at 1pm (we had swimming in between).  Hopefully she will have 1.5hrs and I will put her down at 6.30pm and see what wake up we get with that.  I'm sure if I had a decent wake up 6.30/7, I could work towards the one nap, but with 5.30 wake ups just doen'st happen. 

my friend we go to swimming lessons with, her boy is on one nap - wakes at 8am, sleeps for 2hrs around 12.30/1, then to bed at 8pm - he's 12months.....go figure!  I'm jealuous - no transitioning, just happened that way one week.  I'm sure the later wake up makes a difference..

[jmoran544]

Lauren, your lo seems to have the exact same issues as mine, and about the same schedule.
-jmoran

[laurencopenhaver]

Well, putting him to bed before 6 did the same thing as before; fully awake earlier.  By 5:30 he was laughing and never once did he cry or fuss, was in a great mood.  I didn't even get him out of his crib until 6:15 and he was laying down still instead of standing up so I don't know if all that time he was really awake or not, cause sometimes he'll laugh when he's half asleep.  But he was happy, so that means he's well rested right?  And I don't think he cried out once the whole night!  That's got to be a good thing.  Yesterday nap was 10:35 and slept 1 hr 5 min.  Today I'll try for 10:45.  He's definitely not as crabby this morning as he was yesterday too.  When do the eye teeth come in?  Kyler just got his 4th molar about a week ago, but the past 3-4 days he's been almost unbearable.  Crabby/whiny/clingy as can be!  Never been this bad!  Could they be coming in at 17 months?

Oh, and I gave him a full cup of milk at 6:30 which held him over for over an hour instead of whining by 7 for breakfast.  (We're tring to push back meals so nap can get pushed back.)  And I didn't give him breakfast until 7:45; although he still didn't eat much.  A handful of blueberries, a couple pieces of pb toast, and a couple cherios.  But at least maybe that will hold him over till 9:15 or so for snack, which usually he's whining for by 8:15.

[NiknLily]

Shimmer, how exciting buying your first house  I think I would be tempted to leave dropping the catnap until after you move, but this may just make EW worse  JMO

Linda, did you do the 1 nap.  I was going to say I would wait until she was better first.  Lily took mainly 1.15hr naps when on 1 nap but these dropped down to 45Min's, after a lot of PD and a few attempts at w2s she started to go back to sleep for another 30Min's, then 45Min's then she started taking 1.5hr solid naps but this took a good couple of months and all this only happened after I had shifted her day which took a couple of weeks, 1 to settle onto 1 nap and 1 to shift day.  She will most likely get OT when you shift to 1 nap, but offering 2 naps which aren't long enough she is OT already, its a what have I got to lose? scenario.  Once she settles onto 1 nap and is having early nights to combat OT, hopefully her wake up should improve some on its own.

jmoran, I would say the same as amy, their sleep is improving.  DD may be getting a little OT, or her good nights are resulting in shorter naps, but you cant have it both ways.  The thing with shifting their day is that it may well lead to some OT which can't be helped the aim is to get a better wake up & bedtime.  I know it seems odd but when shifting the shift wont work unless you go by the clock because if the naps are shifting about on there own you cant possibly move them forward.

Lauren, it seems that this transition often goes hand in hand with serious teething.  Lily cut her last front tooth during first part of transition, she already had 4 molars and has been cutting her canines ever since and they still are a no show, so she was about 17m when they started and still nothing, whats concerning me now is that she has also started to poke at the very back/bottom of her mouth too, so I have a horrible feeling her 2yr molars are on the move early  and the last few days she has been super clingy & whiny and has had several meltdowns too 

[debo620]

Amy, when my son was at the 30min am nap stage, I totally CUT the next A times. so I had him in bed for 2.5hrs later and he played and fell asleep by the 3hr mark--and then slept 1.5hrs.

so nap 9:30-10
lunch at 12
crib for 12:30, asleep by 1-slept til 2:30
bed 6:30, asleep by 6:30/6:45.

HTH

[laurencopenhaver]

New Mum-I think too that it's got to be teeth.  Kyler too is putting his fingers in his mouth and somewhat poking and pushing like it hurts.  Motrin isn't doing a whole lot when usually it would cheer him up w/in min. so I know it has to really be bothering him. 
He must have gotten a restful night sleep b/c I put him down at 10:40 and he didn't even fuss.  Lately he's been crying every time I lay him down, and now it's 10 min. later and he's just up there talking to himself and quieting down.  Good sign I hope; that things ARE going to work out eventually.

Amy-things seem very trying for you as well.  Remind me again how old she is, 13 months?  At that age Kyler would take 2 naps mostly as long as the am was 1 hr or shorter.  And his awake time is completely different when he gets a good night sleep.  Since the transition he's more times than not ot, and usually cries out 2-4 times a night.  On those mornings after it's a struggle to get him to 4.5-5 hrs awake time.  But last night he didn't make a sound all night; unusual but good.  Although he was up at 5:30 laughing (beditme was 5:55), he easily stayed awake till 10:45, don't think he even rubbed his eyes, also unusual.  So his mornings too really depend on how well the night went.

[jmoran544]

Anyone have any advie for how many days to keep a fixed schedule? I've decided, after reading all emails, to just keep the kiddos' schedule set for a while, in the hopes that they sleep later and later in the morning, and improve on the length of naps. I decided on an 11:00 nap and a 6pm bedtime. For the last few days they seem to be getting about an 11 hr night, and at least a 1.5 hr nap. My concern with dd is that she needs more nap time, because she has been able to get 2+ hrs in the past. My concern with ds is night wakings- for three days he slept through but the last two he has woken up once or twice- once before I went to bed, and once around 2/3 in the am.

Eventually I want to get to a 7am, 7/7:30pm day. How long should I keep their naps and bedtimes set, in order to get a slightly longer night, before trying to shift 10 min? And what if nap times get shorter? Do I just stay the course?

-jmoran

[NiknLily]

Jmoran - I don't think there is a set answer to that.  It's natural for them to start off with really good nap on 1 nap but I beleive this generally gets a lot shorter then starts to get better again, but your talking months not weeks for this process to work its way through. As long as they can within reason cope with your proposed nap & bedtime (but do expect some OT to creep in) then it shouldn't take too long for there mornings to extend some.  Lily's awake time jumped from 5/5.30am to a solid 6am in a week.  Of course all LO's are different and your LO's are still younger than Lily was at this point. 

If you find there naps get shorter when shifting just stay the course, as soon as awake & bedtime are closer to 7-7 you can then start making up for the OT.  Again it only took Lily a week to come up to 7am wake time, so it can & does work