anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch , thread#3

[sorayas mom]

Well, I've had a good but confusing day!  DD has been waking around 6 am and playing in crib until 7.  Yesterday I put her down at 10:45 am and she only slept 1 hour and woke happily. So I had to hold her for a short pm catnap to get her to bedtime without OT.  So I had her in bed at 7 and she was asleep by 7:30.  So today I pushed am nap back by 10 minutes to try and lengthen the nap as it seems that the short catnap is causing the nw.  (She had 1 nw last night where as the night before she didn't have any and that was a 1 nap day.)  So she had a wonderful nap!  Woke after 1 h 15 m but went right back to sleep by herself and ended up sleeping for 2 hours!  She hasn't slept for 2 hours for ages!  So she slept from 11-1.  I just put her in her crib at 4:15 for some downtime not expecting her to sleep and I just looked in and she is sleeping!! Now what??  Wow, I am shocked.  So I didn't know where to go with things.  Keep the am nap at 11 (down at 10:55) for now?  And not even put her in her crib to rest?  She never wants to take an evening nap I can not believe she is asleep right now!  Also, she has been waking around 6 forever now, should I not expect a 12 hour night any longer and shoot for an 11.5 night (7:30 to 7)?
Thanks for you help!

[amy123]

I'm afraid I must post quickly tonight - just had time to read once through and can't even keep anyone straight at this point.  Our lo's are all struggling in their own ways and all on different routines it seems.

jmoran - good for you for just making up your mind and going for it.  I have friends with twins who say that's the only way to stay sane.

2Pam - yes, I was shortening the a.m. nap to 30 minutes but was still getting p.m. naps of only 40 minutes.  I had started doing this b/c she was refusing her p.m. nap.  That started, though, on the day of the time change (Nov. 4) and then we did a ton of travelling in November, too.  So, in hindsight, I'm not sure whether she was refusing the p.m. nap because she was ready to switch to just one nap, or whether it was due to all the craziness going on with time change and travel.  Now realizing, though, (thanks Deb!) that the 40 minute naps maybe were due to too long A time, I'm going to give shortening A time a whirl and see if it doesn't do the trick.     

today dd was SO tired in the a.m. that I put her down after 2.75 hrs A time, and she slept an hour.  she was ready for her p.m. nap after 3.5 hrs A time and slept an hour fifteen!  That's the most daytime sleep she's had in probably a month!  It felt like the good old days.  She was cheerful and herself again.  However, I think it screwed with her bedtime tonight.    She woke from p.m. nap at 2:45 and I went to put her down at 6:45 (since her wake time is 6 a.m.), but I think it was just too early.  She was trying to go to sleep, but kept fussing/shouting and wasn't really out until 8 p.m.!!!  The problem is, if I moved her bedtime later, then she would either get an hour less sleep tonight or else she would wake up an hour later in the a.m., thus moving naps later and tomorrow's bedtime later, etc... 

Happy St. Nicholas Day (Dec. 6) to all who are celebrating.  We have our shoes out and ready to be filled! 
-amy 

[Aly Mac]

HI Amy, that's the problem that I keep coming across.  I get her happy with A time and naps, but then night time (ie: EW) goes to pot.... just cant' seem to get it right!!!

[NiknLily]

Sorayas Mom - I think your right aim for an 11.5hr night, if she is taking a longer nap you won't get as long night, we seem to get 1hr 30/1hr 45 naps and 12hr night but when she takes a 2hr nap her night is 15-30Min's shorter, cant have it all ways.  She obviously needed that sleep in pm to sleep in her cot at that time.  I would of given her 15-20Min's max.  Something to bear in mind when they suddenly sleep loads more than normal, is a could be a growth spurt.  DD did this to me about a month ago, for 3days her nap/night sleep where incredible and I was getting soooo excited, then it occurred to me she had been eating more than normal too.  Sure enough she did a huge growth spurt and outgrew most of her clothes 

Linda - did you do a 2nd nap? I found with Lily when she took a really short nap that I thought I wouldn't be able to get her back down for that if I kept trying she would either go back to sleep or just lay resting for some time.  I thought that if she really created when I initially tried PD then she was OT and it was not worth trying but I found that after 15/20Min's she would stop crying and sometimes go back to sleep.  Plus the more I did this the easier it became to get her to settle back to sleep when she woke too soon from her nap. 

Infact Jmoran & Linda, Lily woke half way through her nap and needed resettling for about 2.5months after transitioning, due presumeably to OT.  Only recently has this stopped.

Lauren, don't forget once your not getting NW and his routine is settled on 1nap you can shift his day up to a better time.  That 1hr nap isn't too bad, it could still be another month before things really improve.  Have you tried w2s to get him past the hr if you think he is stuck at hr, I did it with Lily with some success, although I've never been that good at the technique.  Just read next post down, As I said to Linda, it is worth really trying to get them back down after a short nap (I always use wi/pd/wo) I know sometimes you just think, no way is he/she going back to sleep, but sometimes they suprise you if you go for it for long enough. I think with Lily it helped because she woke at 45Min's for months but was happy to go back to sleep after a PD and I would get 30/45Min's more from her.  If I had always just got her up at the 45min point she would of expected it, now even if she stirs, yesterday she called out "daddy" but went back to sleep for another hour.

Pam, I would hold onto 2naps for as long as possible at his age.  I will go back and have another look through your posts and see if I can give any advice.  I have to say that cutting the am nap works really well for some and really badly for others, its just so hard sometimes to know which way to go.

[laurencopenhaver]

Yesterday he only had 35 min nap, so I don't think he's just stuck on that one nap.  He's not really having the nw.  Just up by 5:30 am.  I'm getting the pushing morning routine later until naptime, but what do I do after naptime?  Since he's up before noon, do I continue to keep the 6:00 bedtime or since I'm pushing the nap forward, push the bedtime forward?  On days like yesterday on 35 min nap, he was up at 11:30 from nap.  I guess that's the part I don't get; how to get that later bedtime.

[NiknLily]

Lauren - How much night sleep will he do? I worked from there, I knew Lily would sleep 12hrs at night, so her bedtime was always no more than 12hrs after wake up.  So for us Lilys routine was OK, on 1 nap, not perfect as her naps where 45Min's at shortest, but she would do 12hr nights (with NWs but generally short ones like 5Min's) it was just that her day started and ended in wrong place, too early.  You may find that after a 35min nap you can get another nap in roughly 3hrs later, as 35Min's is more like a catnap.  I did try this a few times, and sometimes it worked other it didn't.  JMO, but I would stick with nap at 10.30/45am if he is waking at 5.30am (5hrs after wake time, any more will be way too long) and I would cross my fingers for a reasonable nap.  Stick with this set time for at least a week to see how it all pans out.  I know they change things up on a daily basis but it will take some time for things to settle down.  The temptation is to think that didn't work after a day or 2 but its just to soon for the new routine to have set in.

Pam - I have had a look back and I think that all you can do is cut the am nap to 30/35Min's then have him back down 2.5-3hrs later for next nap.  As you cut the am nap you must shorten the middle A time roughly as follows
20min nap 2-2.5hrs A time
30min nap 2.5-3hrs A time
40min nap 3-3.5hrs A time
I went down this road but DD was older than your LO, for us it was a nightmare, she just never took a good afternoon nap so was always OT.  In hindsight I would of done the long am nap and tried for a short catnap in pm or an early bedtime.

[lindaloulou]

New mum-

I did try a 2nd nap yesterday but it did'nt work. I let her cry for about 20 minutes, but after that she was standing in her crib. As for waking halfway through her nap, how did you resettle Lily? I have never don PD, so not sure how it works. Today Ana slept for 45 minutes after a 5:30AM waking....

Linda

[laurencopenhaver]

new Mum-After the 35 min nap i did try for nap 2 but wouldn't.  He'll do usually no more than 11.75 hrs at night.  His awake time totally depends on how well he sleeps.  Even though he had a bad nap yesterday, he slept great, woke at 5:30, and I think by 6 he fell asleep for another 15 min.  And was good in the morning, put him down at 10:55 and slept till 12:10.  So, for the last 2 weeks or so, give or take a couple days, he's slept pretty good and not had the nw.  So now we're working on pushing the meals/snacks, and nap forward a tiny.  And bedtime was 6:15 instead of 5:50-6.  So hopefully we can do this and someday not wake at 5:30.  Isn't it crazy that after 17 months we're still struggling with this stuff?  My friends that have babies, of course sleep till 8-9 and take great naps, ask me how I do it.  The only way I can look at that situation and not get totally p-off is to say to myself, "God doesn't give you more than you can handle, so they must not be as strong as me." Ha Ha.  He must think I'm strong as a damn ox.

[sarah13h]

Hi all!  I posted a while back about our 'nap hell' and haven't wanted to post again in case I jinxed myself!  We seem to have got ourselves into a somewhat decent routine.  We've not had NWing for a while, and EWing have stopped as well.  In fact, he's even sleeping past 6am, which has been totally unhead of before!

Because he would refuse either or both naps I decided to concentrate on the morning nap, so I'd know he'd had at least 1 good nap.  Last 3 days, his morning nap has been 1.5hrs (after 3hrs A time).  Whoo hoo!  The afternoon nap is a little trickier, and we're still working on it, but at least I can put him to bed early if necessary (as I did yesterday).

Of course, babies being babies, I'm sure this'll all change relatively soon, and I'll be back on here needing advice again!  lol

[sorayas mom]

Thanks again New MUm for the advice.  I need a quick piece of advice again!  After my last post, she did have 3 nwings ( i think due to that late pm nap) and woke around 6ish again and played in crib until 7.  I put her down for her nap at 10:50 and she slept until 1:15!  I ad her in bed at 6 and she fell asleep immediatly.  This morning she woke briefly at 6:30 and went back to sleep until 6:45 with NO nwings!!! What time should I put her down for her nap today?  Push it back until 11:15??

[laurencopenhaver]

Guess who slept until 6:30!  Well, he started waking at 4:15 and was off and on till 5:45, and I thought, come on, I cant do this.  He cried for about 10 min at 5:30 then went back to sleep till 6:30.  Now, when do I put him down?  I've been doing the 10:45-11 since he wakes at 5:30 and won't go back to sleep. Now since he didn't get up really till 6:30, do I automatically push it back up to an hour later, or keep the same naptime so he gets used to it, cause I know he won't sleep that late tomorrow.

[lindaloulou]

Lauren,

2 days ago Ana slept until 6:30AM. I thought it would be a great day to push her nap back as she had that extra time. I put her down about 11:05 and she took about 15 minutes to fall asleep and then woke crying at 30-35 minutes. You can never be sure if it is a fluke or not, but I would tend keep naptime at roughly the same time. I think it is easy to think after 1 good night sleep/nap they are all caught up and not OT, but in reality I don't think it happens that fast...

Just a thought.

Linda

[laurencopenhaver]

Good to know, I was planning on instead of 10:45-10:55, I was going to shoot more for 11-11:15.  Cause he's real tired at 10:30 anyway, so a little past that time, but still less awake time SHOULD make for a restful nap.  But you're right about not geting my hopes up, I think this happend before a while back and I though great!, but didn't turn out so great.  Key is not to push it too far cause it won't allow to get even more caught up on sleep.

[NiknLily]

Sorayas mum, 11.15am would be good, hope I'm not too late.

[NiknLily]

Linda - what I do with Lily is a variation on wi/wo & pd, where I walk in if she is standing/sitting up crying and lay her down then walk out, if she jumps straight up still crying I repeat until she gets the message and stays laying down and goes back to sleep.  Most times I only have to do it once.  If she wakes at night she sometimes needs a little more so after I lay her down I tell her its OK she just woke up, lay down get comfy, close you eyes and go back to sleep, then hand her Do Do (teddy) and leave.

Lauren, I totally here what your saying  sound like on the whole tho' your doing well    Keep to same nap time today for sure.

Sarah