Support and Chat thread for parents of Early Waking Toddlers #2

[Khalam's Mama]

Can you try still giving him 2 naps but capping them so he doesn't get as much sleep?

[ChinaBerry]

FTP (first time poster?? ) here... I've just been reading through about 900 years' worth of EW probs and think I'll try an earlier bedtime for a few weeks to see if the old "rest begets rest" can push us out of 4.45am zone aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!

After 15 months of thinking I was being a nerdy early bt enforcer, DH says to me 'what time do you reckon he should go to sleep?'. I felt so affirmed in my practice!

Hello Sleeping for Toddlers people

[camsyummymummy]

Hi

Thank you for the advice!  Amazingly he seems much better this week.  He seemed to drop the one nap all by himself - the afternoon one surprisingly rather than the morning one.  So he now naps from about 1030am until 12-12.30ish.  Then he stays awake until bedtime (he's a bit grouchy at the very end, but generally lovely all the way through!  He has slept until about 6-6.30 most days and this morning slept until 7!  I know it may not last and that he may switch himself around again, but for now I am going to enjoy every minute

Thank you again for all and any advice
xx

[Whatbit]

OK- first time on here so I haven't read up on anything here yet but thought I'd join in and maybe get some tips.  Aiden, my 23 month old, has always been an early riser- 6am or so- but has been doing 5am EWs for about 5 weeks now.  We are trying to get things back on track but no luck so far.  There's also some other issues with his sleep that cropped up aroudn the same time so I'm not sure if this is the best spot to post or not- I'll proabably do on with more details on the main board.  Btw, he has one nap/day at 12:30is until 2 and BT is 7/7:30ish by the time he is asleep.  We're also getting at least 1 NW per night.  I guess that makes about 11-12 hrs of sleep per day which I'm sure is not enough for him as he was doing more like 13-14 before...  or maybe it is enough but I find he's crankier than normal these days.

[Khalam's Mama]

Have you tried cutting the nap? We get 10hrs nights on 1.5hr naps but on 45 min nap we get 12hr so more sleep over all.

[Whatbit]

No, because he's super cranky by lunch... but I guess it might be worth a try...

[Khalam's Mama]

Or with an early start like that i would nap k at 11am early bt and hope for a later start. 14.5Hr is a long day. If we were up 5am i would be in bed by 6 or 6.30 latest. I find k can stay up if the a after nap is short but gets ot by the long day. I would maybe try the early nap and bt to get caught up and then but the nap to get longer nights. If he is cranky maybe ot.

[DianaG]

Our son is 23 months and is waking at 4:30/4:00 each morning. It has been suggested that we cut his nap from 3 to 2 hours and put him to bed at 7 instead of 8 pm. If we make a change like this, how long do you think we need to give it before we consider it successful or not? If we do this, should we wait until after the holidays? We will be working as usual, no travel. However, his preschool will have different staff and will be in a different place during the holiday weeks, so, should we wait or go for it now? I posted on the early waking toddler page too with more details.

[Whatbit]

Hi Diana!  Big hugs for the EWs.  They are rotten!  My son is 24 months old and we cut his nap from 2 hours to 1.5 and he is in bed asleep by 7 and now getting up at 6 every day.  It was 4:30/5am for quite some time and that was brutal!  We also got him a Groclock so that he would know himself if it was time to get up (the sun comes up).  Since his BT was always at this time we didn't really have to tweak much there.  We just kept it consistent and started waking him up earlier from his naps by 15 minutes a day for a week to play with the times and see what was ideal.  1 hr was too short for example but the 1.5 hours seems perfect right now.  We saw improvements over the course of a month (His NWs also went away for the most part which was also a huge deal).  I don't know what might be better for you guys- waiting or trying now.  But, imo, maybe the extra sleep will help him cope with all the changes at his preschool so it could be a good thing to try now?  Good luck and keep us posted! 

[DianaG]

Thanks for your reply. I think we will make a change right away. Now it is a question of making one change or two. Should we change the bed time first and then in a month (after preschool is back to normal) make any other changes that might be useful or necessary? Or, should we go for it and shorten the nap and go to bed an hour earlier at the same time?

Thanks for the hugs! More back to you too.

[Whatbit]

I think you'll find that thinks are easier and smoother in the long run if you do all at once since daytime and nighttime sleep tends to be so interconnected.  So if you change one, you might not see the final change you want to see until you do both and doing it at separate times could just prolong the issue.  You might find you need to tweak things anyways once preschool is back to normal but then it will just be tweaking rather than major adjustments?  It also really depends on your LO's temperament.  Some kids are way more adaptable than others...   

[DianaG]

I found out just this morning that the winter preschool situation is actually going to be not so different for us after all! They usually merge the winter (and summer) kids to one school with a few rotating teachers. This winter it will be at our school and with our teachers. Only three kids. It is wonderful!! I told them today to wake him after 2 hours and starting tonight we'll put him to bed at 7 instead of 8.

Last night we gave him porridge at bedtime at the teacher's suggestion. We also turned off the night light after he fell asleep. He was very restless and actually fell off the bed, though he landed on his feet.  After the second wake up before midnight we turned the light back on and he slept soundly. He was up at 5 and I did WIWO, just once, and he stayed in his room until 6! He did call for me once in the middle there but went quiet right after so I didn't even get up. Feeling so much better about things. After a good night I think to myself, 'It's all okay, we don't really need to make changes.' I know that isn't really right though. The good nights aren't consistent and they aren't the majority, so we are making the changes today to nap and tonight to bedtime. Wish us luck!!

[Whatbit]

Good luck!  And stick with it.  You'll be glad you did when your nights and wake ups become consistent

[Khalam's Mama]

I agree to cut the nap now. If his issue is ut rather do you think you need to do ebt? Then you are expecting him to sleep longer.

[clairebear79]

Hiya - I'm visiting here for some support with our EW situation atm b/c things are getting pretty dreadful.

DS is 16 months & has been an early waker since about 6 months old.  We had a month of bliss at 11-12months where I broke the EW cycle by pushing out his nap (b/c I'd been giving it too early thus reinforcing the habit), so I know he can do it & sleep a longer night.  He's on 1 nap - started with 1 nap days in August & its been a very gradual & very messy transition with lots of OT & & mixture of 1 & 2 nap days for a long time.  In the last month he's only had one 2 nap day (when he was poorly) so I think we're fully there now.  However, since being solidly on 1 nap, we've developed an EW problem.  His WU gradually crept earlier, so as a result I had to do his nap earlier, therefore BT needed to be earlier too to stop the day being too long. So at this point wasnt technically EW but an early cycle. Routine ended up roughly 5-5.30am WU, Nap 11-11.30, BT 6-6.30.  His WU has never been consistent & is quite erratic, varying by as much as 1.5hrs from day to day which makes it very hard to keep any consistency.  Then his nights got even shorter to 10-10.5hrs & we are getting more of this than anything else so I decided it either has to be the nap is too early in the day, OR he's getting too much day sleep.  I'm really not sure which is the cause.  I visited the support for dropping the nap thread for advice on how you know when its time.  Most people would say he's too young, but he's always very definitely been on the lower end of sleep needs.  Suggestion on there was to push nap later first & THEN cap the nap at 1.5hrs.  So I deceided to try this b.c I really DO want to shift his day later.  I am prepared to live with 10.5hr nights & 2hr nap if only I could get him waking later, napping later & going to bed later.  So in the last couple of weeks I've been working on pushing the nap later by 15mins every 3 days.  We're now at midday nap, but things have gotten truly awful.

23/12 WU: 6.10    A = 5h 40   (Nap PD: 11.35)  Nap: 11.50-1.00 (1h 10)   A = 6h     BTPD: 6.15   Asleep 7.00**screamed 45mins at BT.
24/12 WU: 5.15    A = 6h 35   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.50-1.20 (1h 30)   A = 4h 55 BTPD: 5.50   Asleep 6.15 - did earlier BT today after yesterday's fiasco.
25/12 WU: 5.30    A = 6h 30   (Nap PD: 11.35)  Nap: 12.00-1.20 (1h 20)   A = 5h 20  BTPD: 6.20   Asleep 6.40
26/12 WU: 4.50    A = 7h 05   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.55-1.40 (1h 45)   A = 5h 20  BTPD: 6.30   Asleep 7.00
27/12 WU: 5.30    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.50-1.30 (1h 40)   A = 5h 05  BTPD: 6.20   Asleep 6.35
28/12 WU: 5.35    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.40)  Nap: 11.55-2.00 (2h 05)   A = 5h 05  BTPD: 6.50   Asleep 7.05
29/12 WU: 5.35    A = 6h 20   (Nap PD: 11.45)  Nap: 11.55-2.05 (2h 10)   A = 5h 35  BTPD: 7.25   Asleep 7.40*tried later BT again as earlier seems to only give 10.5hrs nights

So we've had a week of shortened naps & shorter nights.  His days are sooooo long.  & When I look at it I can see I'm being consistent with nap PD but not with BT - maybe part of the problem.  His day is so out of balance now, & I think he needs more A after a 2hr nap than 5hrs, & this may be our ultimate problem bc hes OT at nap from the long A BUT UT at BT from not enough A, but OT from the super long day overall IYSWIM?  And his WU just isn't getting later.

Yesterday he was very very tired & very very unhappy so I let him have an extra 10mins nap, but to compensate for this I pushed him to a later BT.  Last night he slept 9h 20, awake at 5am.  Dozed on/off until 6.30 but for the most part of this was awake.  Probably 10hrs sleep in total.  WTF???  Down to the later BT or the extra 10mins sleep - I dunno.  He is so so so OT now it is unreal.  And I just don't know what else to do.  It seems every single time I try to push his day out we get in such a mess.  Then I go back to doing early nap, early BT to get him over the OT.  Sure it works, but then we carry on with an 11am nap & his WU is steadily getting earlier & earlier.  Most other LO's I know of find their naps get later in the day as they get older but O's is staying the same or getting earlier. 

Sorry this is so long, can anyone please offer me some advice as to how to get us back on track.  Am feeling pretty desperate now.