Baby Led Weaning Support Thread - Part 9

[Papaya]

Squeakersmum, my LO has loved meat right from the get go - one of the first things she had was a big chuck of roast beef that she just sucked and gummed away at for aaaages. She also likes minced chicken (or other meat) made into little sausages with some onion, garlic, breadcrumbs, herbs and an egg to bind it all. We held off on egg whites til she was 7 months just out of an abundance of caution really, but the latest advice now that I've heard is that six months is fine if there's no history of allergy, so it's a personal choice.

As with puree weaning, there are a few things you might want to introduce a bit later or more slowly, especially if there is a history of food allergy, eczema or hayfever - dairy, wheat, soy, eggs etc. Not that you have to avoid them, but maybe do the three day wait on those (we didn't bother with it for most things, but did with these). We had no history of any food allergy but my DH and I both have other allergies, and it transpires that my LO has a mild dairy allergy - so I was glad we were watching out for it.

Creations, everyone still stares (and pulls out their camera, LOL) when they see my LO eat. Maybe partly because she's foreign, but I think too that babies here don't feed themselves finger food at all until they're much older. We've had our students come to us and request permission to video her because they've gone home and told people about her and have been accused of making up stories...

Welcome Becky

[petram]

Hi ladies

I am brand new to BLW and very inspired by this thread, but i have loads of questions!!!!

Can you give them ANYTHING?
So for eg, we had sausage and mash and peas and carrots for dinner last night, is there any of that you would not give lo?

When you puree wean, its advised to introduce foods at certain ages, why don't you do that with BLW?

My lo is 6 months on 3rd Nov, so i will be starting very soon, would giving him banana, carrots, pear, broccoli, be ideal foods to start with?

What about bread/toast, what do you put on it, butter, jam, phily....?

Is there anything that is really good or really bad to give them?

Ooooo im so excited about starting!!!!

[beckygatt]

Hi Petram! I'm in the same situation as you. Very excited to get started but still a bit unsure about what to give when. Its so different from puree weaning isn't it? I'm currently reading the book so hopefully that will answer some questions too!

[Papaya]

Welcome Petram! If you haven't read the book yet, here's an article based on Gill Rapley's research which gives a good intro to BLW and the main guidelines:
http://www.borstvoeding.com/voedselintroductie/blw/engels.html]
[url]http://www.borstvoeding.com/voedselintroductie/blw/engels.html[/url]

You can start with many of the same foods that you would otherwise, just don't puree them - offer them in a form that your LO can pick up on his own. The foods you mention - banana, carrots, pear and broccoli - are all great. For banana, either get the small finger bananas and offer them whole, or cut bigger ones into sticks (bit slippery!). My LO's first food was carrot - again, stick shaped so he can grab it, cooked enough so that it holds it's shape but will mush against the top of his mouth. Pear you can give raw (peeled) if it's really ripe and soft, or else stewed or poached. Or baked, I suppose! Broccoli florets have a natural handle, so just steam until they're nice and soft but not falling apart.

The theory of BLW is basically that babies will choose to, and be able to, eat food as they are ready for it - but you are still in charge of what you offer! Mainly, you should avoid offering foods with added salt (as babies' kidneys can't process it) or sugar (they just don't need it). If there's a history of allergy, you might want to hold off on common allergens or be cautious about introducing them. And don't offer things that are small and hard, eg nuts, because they ARE a choking hazard - I'm also careful with cherry tomatoes, grapes etc. I cut them in half.

We didn't start off with family meals straight away - at the start I introduced individual foods (although I didn't follow the three day rule, except for the common allergens). So a meal might be just carrot sticks and plain brown rice, or one chuck of beef and a couple of broccoli florets, or a mix of pumpkin and potato wedges. I slowly introduced herbs and spices to make things interesting. And after a few weeks, when she'd tried lots of different things, I started giving her what we were having or a variation on it.

So from the meal you mention - I would say mashed potato is fine, just put a big clump on his tray and let him go for it. But be aware that if it's made with butter or milk, they are potential allergens. Carrots, cook them in bigger pieces than you would for yourself, so he can grab them. Peas, he's unlikely to have enough of a pincer grip to be able to pick up at this stage, but he might like chasing them (make sure they're well cooked too, or squish each one a little so they're not a choking hazard). I'd avoid most bought sausages because of the salt content - but if they're home made without salt, no problem.

With toast, I would avoid jam because of the sugar content. I give it plain and my LO eats it fine! But she has a dairy allergy, so we can't use butter. If that's not an issue, try a little butter with a sprinkling of cinnamon (mmmm), philly or cottage cheese, french toast, mashed banana (messy but fun ... basically just avoid added sugar or salt (you might want to check the salt content of the bread you buy as well...some are higher than others...)

Sorry for the lengthy post. BLW is lots of fun, hope you and your LO enjoy it!

[jay2yay]

Welcome Petram! I started BLW about a month and a half ago and I still have questions! Mine are very similar to yours....it's the whole added salt thing....I had one mom the other day tell me around my DS's age they let their son have pizza. I thought to myself, "Pizza?!?" isn't there too much salt in pizza? I might be taking it too literally....I almost feel like if it has salt, I can't give it to him but it sounds like a little salt with moderation is fine.

I also haven't given DS any dairy yet either. He used to seem sensitive when I drank milk or ate yogurt. But lately when I've eaten it, he hasn't seemed all that bothered so maybe it's okay now.

[creations]

Papaya - it doesn't surprise me about LOs there not having finger foods until later, my brother lives in China where his son was born.  They came over to the UK to visit with his DS was 18 months and he was still only eating baby rice (blleuckk!!!) and bottles of milk, occasionally a jar of stage 1 (but very hard to find and buy where my brother lives).
On about their second day here I had him sitting at the dining table with the rest of us eating a home made lasagna
After that he totally refused baby rice or jarred puree - and I'm not surprised, he suddenly discovered he had taste buds and wanted to explore this new world of food.  I wasn't hard on my bro for not introducing real food earlier though, he's doing a great job of being a single daddy and he was basically led by those around him for what to do.

With the salt thing, I take it very seriously.  I read an article about the increase of problems with babies due to high salt intake and much of it seemed to be blamed on baked beans.  Now I consider baked beans (on toast) a pretty cheap but healthyish meal for an adult, not when it comes to LO though.  a tiny amount of low salt beans (maybe couple of dessert spoons) and half a piece of bread/toast (with unsalted butter) and his salt allowance for the day has been blown out of the water, plus this wouldn't necessarily fill him up.  When you start looking at salt content it's pretty scary but in a short space of time you work out just how much of something they can have and balance salt over a day.  1g of salt for under 12months (0.4g sodium) per day.

I use unsalted butter for LO, limit how much cheese (different cheeses have different levels too) and canned fish and he gets (and never buy in brine, only sunflower oil), would never give something like a sausage or pizza unless it was home made.

I also didn't start with family meals but I always sat and ate with DS so he thought it was a family meal, he could see I was eating exactly the same and he also got the social aspect of eating together as a family.  I started with one fruit or veg at each meal time then moved to two different things.  He was into food from the word go so we were on three meals per day straight off even though they were not entire 'meals'.  you can offer a balanced diet over a full day or a week rather than at each meal time too.  In Tracy's BW for toddlers she describes the HELP approach (Hold back, let them Explore, Limit choices and Praise) and I think this works well with weaning, I found DS was overwhelmed with too much choice in the early days so limiting to one or two items on his tray allowed him to really explore what was there.

I should also say I never read the book and generally refer to DS as a self-feeder rather than BLW because we did our own thing including having me hold food for him to gnaw on the first few times he ate (he was crying so much that he wanted it but couldn't hold it!) and many many times me holding up a piece of food for him to take off me rather than having to pick it up off his tray himself.  Although I haven't read the book I believe these are kind of 'breaking the rules' but I don't care   I did what suited us and it worked very well.
Moon shape and do-nut shaped pieces are also good for picking up (not just fingers and wedges which can be slippery) for example rings of pear de-cored as it gives a place to grip.

And, yes it is LOADS of fun.  Do remember to get the video camera set up occasionally too.

[beckygatt]

Thanks for the advice! Until what age are they so sensitive to salt?

[Khalam's Mama]

They need less than adults until about 7 i think but it is 1g under 1 and 2g per day between 1 and 2y. It increases about a gRam a year i think. we have been doing ok here. I gave b some seas today and as i walked out the room i heard "oh it's too slippery for you. Shall nana hold it for you?" i had to remind her it isn't grannie lead weaning.

[Papaya]

many many times me holding up a piece of food for him to take off me rather than having to pick it up off his tray himself.

I've read an interview with Gill Rapley where someone asked about this and she said it was fine - polite even, I believe her words were! You're still offering. She said it's only a problem when you start closing LO hands around something or guiding it to their mouth, when they couldn't otherwise do that for themselves.

I also would never give my LO bought pizza at this age - but she LOVES homemade pizza. I always make my own anyway, so  now don't put salt in the dough, and make a little individual one for her. On top she has tomato paste with chopped garlic and herbs, then usually some onion, mushroom, maybe a bit of shredded chicken or flaked fish, peas (she likes to pick these off the cooked pizza first, then eat the rest ) etc. No cheese for her anyway at this stage, but otherwise I would add just a little.

Just generally now, I don't add any salt at all to my cooking, and put the salt shaker on the table for others to add their own. Then I don't have to try and remember, is this something that F is allowed to eat or not...it all is. Takes a bit of getting used to (especially for DH:)) but actually makes life much easier if you're doing BLW.

Agree that it's great to sit and eat with your LO right from the start if you can, even if it's just a snack for you. Since we've been on 2 naps a day, family mealtimes usually work, but on the days they don't I usually have a little something at the same time as she eats. I can also be doing something else at the table, eg chopping veges, and she's happy with that, but mostly I try to just sit and eat (or nibble!).

I've never managed to get a good video of her eating because she's far too fascinated with the camera to carry on eating! Need to try and hide it somehow

[creations]

i had to remind her it isn't grannie lead weaning.

I get really quite annoyed with DS's Nana.  She loudly repeats 'CHEW CHEW CHEW CHEW CHEW' through his entire meal if not stopped by me.  I have pointed out that he doesn't understand the word 'chew' and although I'm all for language aquasition I don't think this is the most important word for him to learn, neither do I think it polite or gives a realistic sense of how a normal meal plays out.  Imagine if every time we went to a restaurant the waiter stood next to us shouting 'chew chew! drink! bite!, spit it out!' good grief!!  She also jabs her finger on his tray repeatedly, like a wood-pecker, saying 'there's your banana, there's your banana, eat this carrot eat this carrot'.  I've started doing it back to her.  She's a lovely woman and I appreciate her support and help but PLEASE let the boy just eat in peace.

Papaya your home made pizza sounds yummy.  I don't think I've ever made fresh pizza dough but think it would be a good addition to my cooking skills, would I just follow a normal recipe but leave out the salt, will it still work?

DS is also fascinated by the camera, no matter what cureness he is displaying, the second the camera appears he stops and just stares at it until a picture is taken.  The only way I managed to film him was to set up the camera on the table permanently so he got used to it being there, he still spent most of the meal staring at it whilst he ate as though showing off to his audience lol

I think BLW is a great way to generally improve the whole family's meals in terms of less salt, less or no processed foods, more veg and fruit etc.  Rather than baby eating what the family eats I see it as a sort of adaptation that the family eats what baby eats, kind of anyway.  I found it difficult at the beginning to do DS's dinner (evening meal) and eat with him because it is so early, 5.15pm and I was used to eating around 8pm after her was in bed but I sometimes now eat a full meal with him at that time and maybe just get myself a snack later on.  Our evening meal is therefore more of a quick meal like many people have for lunch, where as our lunch is the big meal of the day, I have more time to prepare it and DS eats better at that meal.  By dinner he is so tired he wouldn't cope with a big meal.

As I've not read the book it's really interesting to read what you said about holding food up to offer to LO.  From what I've read in bits on line I thought this was frowned upon, it pleases me that it's considered OK as I was imagining many babies getting upset about not being able to get their food! DS was SO into food it would have been pure cruelty to not help him where he wanted help.  He is very clear about if/when he needs a little help and generally wants to do it all himself but the early days it is very difficult to pick up those slippery fruits.

[beckygatt]

I once read somewhere that to make fruit less slippery it can be lightly coated with baby rice...

I dread to think what my MIL's reaction to blw is going to be. I haven't told her we're planning to use it but I can imagine the comments she's going to pass . We're probably going to have a row about it during which she will accuse us of child starvation and cruelty. Luckily DH has no problem standing up to his mum

[Papaya]

Coating in wheatgerm is also commonly recommended...I have tried this with banana and it made it less slippery for about half a minute, until it had been picked up once, dropped back on the tray and squished a little...then slippery again But give it a go!

Child starvation, yeah right! It took a month or so, but I'm convinced my LO now eats tons more than babies who are on a certain number of tablespoons of puree per day!

[jay2yay]

lol KM

Thanks for the salt info.

So...any recommendations for an LO who choves as much as he can into his mouth? He's been doing that A LOT...almost at every meal. This morning it was banana. He choved a huge chunk into his mouth and I let it go....he chewed for a couple seconds and then the look came. He choked the worse I'd ever seen and his eyes got all teary and red. I finger swiped the banana out. It's things like that that just make me want to give him bite size pieces.

[beckygatt]

That must be scary!

[creations]

Justine my DS puts as much as he can in his mouth too, and once when his Nana and Nana's friend were over Nana was basically telling him to htake small bites (as if he understands) but her friend told her that all kids shove as much as they can in and also do as little chewing as poss and just swallow big pieces (she has grandchildren who were puree weaned and they do it too).  But I was far far more scared of small pieces. At least with big pieces he knows he is shoving it in his mouth.  These days I let DS have raisins and small pieces of food as I feel he is self feeding so well but at the beginning it was bite sized pieces that scared the hell out of me.  DS was playing one day and I noticed a button had fallen off his cardigan, that worried me more than anything I had given him to eat, it was right next to him and he could so easily have noticed it before I did.  Given the choice between a plastic button and a plastic plate I'd rather he put the larger of the two in his mouth and that's my approach with food size too.

DS gets red in the face, teary eyed and looks like he is choking pretty often, but he manages to cough whatever it is back up without interference so I never consider it a choke.  I just hold back and see what happens.  I think part of holding back is I don't want to scare him and part of it is the first aid course I did said you can make them choke by mouth sweeping so advised against it.

Sorry I don't have any recommendations other than do a pediatric first aid course if you haven't already done one.  It only needs to be a short course where you are shown with a dummy baby what to do in a choke situation.  I suppose you could find videos on-line to watch too.  It must have been scary for you.  How did LO react afterwards?  Was he upset?