The 2-1 journey continues....

[Joy-filled]

Well, time to end the 23 page thread under "naps" and start a new one here as Aaron turns 1 today and has now graduated to the "Sleeping for Toddlers" board.  In summary, my truly wonderful and delightful son has been battling chronic OTness and therefore short naps, NWs and sometimes EWUs for well....his entire life.  Shiv52 has been a tremendous constant support and I don't know how I'd be coping if it wasn't for her giving me guidance and direction for the past couple of months. 

After attempting short am long pm and then long am short pm and back and forth it eventually became clear that the only way to go with this LO was to push him to 1 nap early.  So, for the past 2 weeks I've been doing a set nap of 12, set BT of 7:30.  I'm supposed to do a CN every 4-5 days to help manage OTness but he has been refusing this when I try to APOP in the car.  Naps have been an OT 30 min - 1 hr 10 (either only makes it through 1 sleep cycle or is able to get through the first but not past the 2nd), and I then have to rock him to extend the nap 90% of the time.  For example, today he slept 1 hr 5 min.  I was able to rock him back to sleep for 23 min, he woke, then slept another 5.  Not nearly enough after a night with only 10.5 hrs of sleep . We are currently battling some pretty bad and frequent NWs as well.  Therefore, he is averaging 12 hrs of sleep in a 24 hr period due to a short nap and lost sleep at night.

Shiv, he is consistently falling asleep when I BF at 4 hrs.  I manage to keep him from falling asleep but it is not easy as he is sooooo tired.  I wonder if instead of doing a CN every 4-5 days if I PD for his nap at 11 (or 4 hr A time)?  I have a feeling he'll either give a really long nap as he won't be OT and I won't need a CN after all or he'll only nap 1 hr 10ish again but then I'd be in a better position to get a CN in the car since the nap will have ended earlier and there will be time in the day to do a CN without pushing BT later.  What do you think?  I know I need to stick to set times in order for it to work but since I can't do the CN every 4-5 days to address OTness, could I do this instead?

[Eva's Mummy]

Happy Birthday Aaron 

Hi sweetie, its scary being over here on the toddler thread isn't it  where did that 1st year go. By the looks of it you got my PM. Obviously i'm not an expert but it certainly works here.

((hugs)) for you and Aaron xxxx

[Shiv52]

I think that would work Char.

What are your thoughts on trying an earlier bedtime rather than a CN every 4 days?  He did tack on that last time didnt he?

[Shiv52]

Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday dear Aaron!
Happy birthday to you!!!!!!!!

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the b-day wish (from Aaron)!

He did tack on once but generally speaking his pattern is to not tack on.  I think it would be safer to try the earlier nap with a CN.  If you think it's okay I'll give it a try tomorrow.

[Shiv52]

Can't hurt to try lovely xx

[Joy-filled]

He woke at 6:00 this morning  .  Didn't get him out of his room until 7:00.  Do you think I should do his 1st nap at 10:30? 

Are you sure doing this 2 nap thing every 4-5 days won't mess up any "progress" I've made with set nap/BT?

[Shiv52]

I don't think so. Doing a CN is essentially doing two naps anyways YK?

[Joy-filled]

Yes, I see what you mean.  We'll go with the shortened am A time with a CN in the pm every 4-5 days instead then and hope it is helps to address the OTness and help him cope with the longer A times and set nap and BT.  Thanks!

[Shiv52]

 

[Joy-filled]

I have TBH, I truly dislike (to put it lightly) 2 nap days.  Aaron just screams and screams for the CN .  Even in the car.  I end up bawling right along with him as it is just awful.  I don't let him see/know I'm upset as I know that won't help at all but I can't help but cry.  He is so darn upset and I don't understand why.  He doesn't cry when I PD for the first nap or for BT....but when it comes to the pm nap, as you know, he resists it with a furious passion and is so upset.  A positive is that at least he took the nap today, as it would've been a 7 hr A to BT if he hadn't. 

Today:
WU 6:00, GU 7:00
Nap 10:35 (crying but fell asleep in 5 min) - 11:20, rocked and slept 11:25-12:23 (45+58 min = 1 hr 43)
Nap 4:10-4:45 (35 min APOP nap in car, screamed from 3:45-4:10 then fell asleep instantly.  Woke him up at 4:45, he was not happy to be woken up)
BT 7:45 (PD at 7:15 but quietly kept repositioning until 7:45)

So....a 13.75 hr day with only just over 2 hrs of DTS.  That's 11.75 hr of A time in the day....certainly doesn't help our OT situation.  But what other option is there?  He can't handle 1 nap as the nap isn't long enough to get him through the day without getting OT but 2 nap days are borderline traumatic as he just screams for the CN. I guess I just have to ride it out and wait until his nap lengthens and in the meantime suffer through the OT NWs and screaming CNs?  I don't know what else to do...

[ZacsMumme]

Hun forgive me if I missed something but what happened if you pd at 4 hrs? When he was falling asleep? Would he do a longer nap? If so maybe he could then cope with the longer A to BT or at least he may accept a CN...

How long have you been pushing thorough the OT? If it's been a few weeks and no improvement maybe it's worth a change up?

[Shiv52]

That's what char did yesterday Sara. He has been getting really sleepy when she BFs at the 4 hour mark so we thought if she tried an earlier nap it might help get a longer nap and make it easier for a CN.  But he got so upset with the CN again.

What do you think?

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry fixed my usual autocorrect rubbish

Ok...I may be mad...I'm just thinking

What if you got him up if he wakes after 6. So then 4 hrs is 10 let him do 10-12 or as long as you can get. Then CN 4hrs or a bit later...Z did a CN 4hrs20 or so after a nap if it wasn't Long enough or he woke early. He may have fought that CN as he wasn't tired enough. But a car CN around 4 hrs later may work. Offer 20-30 mins and BT 2-2.5 hrs or a little later.
Ie
WU 6
Nap 10-12 (or longer if he can do it)
CN 4.15-4.40 or so (maybe go for drive at 4 ish)
BT 6.45-7

I you get a longer night and he wakes after 6.30-7 and it's solid you could push say
WU 6.45 out of cot 7 (or add a little more A to push nap out closer to 11.15-30)
Nap 11-1 (then 5hrs A)
BT 6 (I know EBT hasn't worked...but if you haven't recently I'd give it one more crack, treat EW like a NW.) 

I'm just wondering if its worth going back, just to get him over this OT. Then tryto do a push again in a week or so if you think he needs it.

Like I said...I may be mad

[Joy-filled]

I don't think you're "mad" at all Sara! think those are some really good thoughts.  However, I feel quite torn.  I'm totally burned out with A times and so badly want him to be on a set nap so there is some predictability to our life but it's clearly not working for him.  Perhaps this would be a good compromise:

1) If WU is 6:30-7:00 make it a set nap day.  Start by GU at 7:00 (or later if I can or if he sleeps later) and do set nap at 11:30.  This is slightly earlier than 12 as he's clearly not handling the long am A time but longer than 4 hr A time.  I think I have to do longer than 4 hrs A as I need to push him to 1 nap because he'll be starting daycare in a month and those days will be 1 nap days no matter what as the daycare provider can't drive him around for a CN .   I think I should move BT earlier to 7:00 but do 6:30 if his nap is 1.5 hrs or less.  I don't want to do earlier than 6:30 as I am convinced it will get us stuck in an EWU rut.

2) If WU is earlier than 6:30 I'll make it an "A time" day with 2 naps. GU right away and nap will be 4 hrs after WU.  I'll try for CN 3.75 hrs after nap ends.  I think you're right that me might have fought the nap with such fury because he wasn't tired enough.  However, he fell asleep after 3.75 hrs for the CN yesterday so I think I'll first aim for that again by starting to drive at 3 hr 35 min (if he still screams, I'll bump that by 15 min the next time to see if that helps). CN length I'll cap at 20-30 min, aiming for BT to be around 7:00.

Thoughts?