The 2-1 journey continues....

[ZacsMumme]

Ahh ok sorry I understand now!
So am I right with the longer A your getting 30 mins or so but can often resettle
And with the shorter A your getting a mix of longer and shorter naps? - but waking happier?

I'm not sure if your rushing, but I wonder if he was given a little more of a chance he may settle himself. Obviously if he's crying for you go in. But otherwise fussing or mantra crying it may be worth leaving him to it to see if he settles himself back YK?
Did you ever try or have success with w2s?

[Joy-filled]

W2S - I tried for weeks and weeks when he was 4-5 months (I think) and it didn't work at all.  It just woke him up and that was that.  I'm certain that would happen if I did it now.  He is such a light sleeper.

Here's the last # of days in summary

                                          Sun             Mon             Tues               Wed               Thurs             Fri                  Sat                 Today
Night sleep B4 WU -          10.5              11.25            10.75           11.75            12.25              12.25          11 hrs 10        11.75?
A time -                            4 hr 51         4 hr 16            4 hr 10         4 hr 17          4 hr 30          4 hr 40        4 hr 45           4 hr 5?
Nap -                                1 hr 8          27 (OT)            1 hr 5           34 (UT)         1 hr 6 (UT)     55 (UT)        30 (OT)            1 hr (UT)
Rocking -                          refused         25+40             20 min          5                   refused          refused         27                   unsuccessful

Rocking seems to only work when he has an OT short nap but I usually can't extend it by much so we've needed to attempt a CN every day this week. 

I'm really unsure as to what A times to use and when to do so, including today - last night he slept 6-5:30 (a few SS NWs) and then slept on  and off until 6:20 (?).  GU 6:40.  I didn't know when to count his WU from or what A time to use and I clearly got it wrong.  I was going to do 4 hr 30 min (guessing A time from 6:30??) and PD at 11 but he was yawning all morning and then falling asleep while BFing at 3.75 hrs and I had to prop his eyes open, which I haven't had to do all week.  So, I rushed him into his room and PD in his crib and he fell asleep in 4 min at 10:35.  I thought for sure I'd get a mega nap but as you can see he didn't.  His cues are clearly unreliable. I honestly cannot wait for the day I can do a set nap - a year of trying to figure out his A times and never getting it right as it seems to change day by day, is discouraging  .  What am I doing wrong?  What should I do differently?  Or will it just have to remain a mystery that I have to keep guessing at until he can go on a set nap - but how would I know when that would be?

[Joy-filled]

Okay, I looked back at my log for 12:00 set nap, 7:30 set BT.  He was getting between 10.5-11.5 hrs on average/night.  A time usually ended up being around 5 hrs (sometimes a bit less sometimes a bit more).  He was napping either 1 cycle (30 min) and I could rock for 1-2 sleep cycles to extend or he was sleeping 2 cycles (1 hr 10ish min) and rocking didn't extend.  Either way he was getting at least 1 hr of sleep in and I didn't have the hassle of the CN (which is hit or miss whether he takes or not these days).  A time to BT was often quite long as I was doing a "late" set BT.

Is it a bad idea to try set nap again with an earlier BT with more flexibility to BT if he naps poorly and hope his clock sets?  Example - 11:30 set nap, 6:30 BT (30 min early if poor nap) or 12:00 set nap, 7:00 BT (30 min earlier if poor nap) - this latter option would be easier for when I return to work.  Or since he's so touchy should I keep trying to figure out his magic A time?

[Shiv52]

Hugs Char xx

Just caught up. Sorry we went to the beach then M started back to school then my girls were sick all weekend!

I know originally when you were starting set nap we discussed the day being long but the fact he didnt tack on meant you didn't want to do EBT to risk the EW. But I do think the day was just too long and the OT spiralled. If it were me I'd go back to set nap at 11.30 seeing this is what he needs to do for day care but go for bed at 6.30, bit earlier if his nap is rubbish. Honestly I think getting rid of the CN is the way to go.

What are your thoughts?

[Joy-filled]

Hello again Shiv!  I hope your DDs are feeling better and hopefully you don't catch what they had!

I agree, the fact that I didn't do EBT for fear of EW led to OT spiraling out of control.  I think at this point getting rid of the CN is the way to go.  It takes him 2.5-3 hrs to fall asleep after a 20-30 min CN so it just ends up extending the day and giving him longer total A time in the day and keeping us in the land of OTness.  Daycare can do his nap at any point in the day, she's flexible.  The only thing she can't do is drive him around for a CN so that's why we need to just do 1 nap on daycare days and she figured it would be easiest if it was at a set time. 

I'd prefer 12:00 nap 7:00 BT for two reasons: 1) less of a stressful rush to get him to bed early if his nap on daycare days is rubbish 2) in prep for daylight savings....I know it's 2 months away but I know it will be here before I know it and I think it'll be easier to transition/manage if his BT and WU isn't quite as early to begin with.  However, if 11:30 will result in a better nap than 12:00 will then I'd be more than happy to go with 11:30. What do you think?

[Shiv52]

Oh sorry I just thought 11.30 was set in stone.

My concern with a 12pm nap is he seems to be waking at 6.30ish, is that right?  It's just you are then going to looking at 5/5.30 A time to get there?  Do you think he can manage that? 

[Joy-filled]

His WUs are fairly scattered but since I've been doing EBT he usually doesn't tack on enough to end up waking after 6:30 and if I had to guess I'd say he can't manage more than 5 without getting OT.  Perhaps 11:30 would be better, then.

[Shiv52]

I'd maybe start there and aim to push it out as things settle down. If he does sleep I would move the nap though. I'd say 5 hours of A time is reasonable so if he sleeps to 7 then I'd do the nap at 12. So no earlier than 11.30 but at least 5 hours A time I guess?    Obviously you want to encourage the later wake up so you can shift the day KWIM?

[Joy-filled]

I've read others suggest that if LO wakes up later, still do set BT as it just means they needed that extra sleep.  But I do think that if Aaron wakes later it will mean he got a lot of night sleep (unless he had lots of or a long NW) so then as you say he should probably have at least 5 hrs A time. This week has shown me that lots of night sleep = need for a longer A time.  So I think I agree with you that for Aaron I should do nap at 11:30 but at least 5 hrs A time so if he wakes later do the nap later.  I also agree that it would be better to push things once the nap lengthens.  Thx Shiv!

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Hun. I agree if your going to set the nap I think start with 11.30 and re Jew in a week or two.
Given EBT is working now a bit better then maybe fix Bt unless the nap is less than 1hr15 (or whatever yo unthinkable is reasonable) and do the EBT.

[Shiv52]

I think what we definately know about A is he will give at UT nap if he has a really good night. Even often on pretty decent A times.

I agree with Sarah that I'd likely set BT too but be prepared to do EBT if he naps less than you think is reasonable. You may well need to do 6.30 bedtime every 4/5 days to keep on top of OT.   Once he's you've done nap at 11.39 for a bit then you can start pushing it out a bit.

What time will he need to get up in the morning when you are back to work?

[Joy-filled]

I think I agree with Sara that a nap less than 1.15 would be "rubbish" and I'd do an EBT on those days.  Anything over I think I'll stick with regular BT. Shiv did you mean to say that every 4/5 days I might need to do 6:00 BT?  You said 6:30 but I think that's what I'm setting BT at, right?

He'll have to be up by about 6:45 when I go back to work. 

[Shiv52]

So you're setting BT at 6.30?  With the aim of getting to 12pm nap and 7pm bedtime? 

So basically you're aiming for 6.30-11.30 nap-6.30 bed.

[Joy-filled]

Yes, that's right.  At least I think that seems like the best plan?

Will be a rough start to begin today, though as he only slept 10 hr 40 min last night and woke up at 5:55  .  Oh well, hopefully I can rock him to extend what will be pretty much a guaranteed OT short nap  .

[Shiv52]

How'd you get on?