The 2-1 journey continues....

[Joy-filled]

Sheesh!  Every time I post today he wakes up right after I post!  So, never mind.  He woke up crying at 2:40.  He's now lying back down again but I'm pretty sure he won't go back to sleep.  I'll stick with 7:00 BT.

[Shiv52]

 

[Joy-filled]

Thanks Shiv.  I needed that today.  I am struggling today as DM babysat A this morning and I am feeling like a crazy mother for doing set naps and BT.  Aaron was rubbing his eyes all am and so tired he apparently was literally falling asleep sitting at the piano with my mom while she was playing....at 10:30!  He lay down on the keys with his eyes closed.  I came home at 11 and he really was tired.  My DM simply couldn't understand why I didn't put him down for a nap when he clearly needed it.  I don't blame her.  I could barely keep him awake when BFing at 12.  I literally was walking around the house, bouncing him, turning lights on and off while he was 1/2 asleep at the breast.  I couldn't keep him awake.  Yet he still gives a 1 hr 10 min nap.

It seems like the only way he'll sleep past 2 cycles is if he has a horrible night like yesterday or if he's sick.  It's been 3 weeks now of set nap at 12:30...

[Joy-filled]

Sigh....he is beyond miserable.  Crying and crying.  I feel like Aaron would do fine if our day was a 22 hr cycle.  24 hrs is too short for him to have 2 naps but too long for him to have 1.  Thanks for letting me vent.  I'm sure you're all weary of hearing the same thing over and over.  I don't know why I keep posting but I guess it makes me feel like I'm doing something about the situation .

[Haribo2012]

Awhh hun big hugs it's sooooo hard! No advice but thinking of u, a good vent helps x

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs lovely.

Would he do better with an 10.5/11 hr night and 2 naps? (Forgive me if this is what he gets anyway at night) some. Us, have success at waking their LOs in the am to fit 2 naps I n if that's what their LO needs.

Ie WU 6.30
Nap 10.30-11.15
Nap 3-3.45
BT 7.30

Now I KNow this is. Far from an ideal plan but im just throwing out a bit of a radical option YK?

[Joy-filled]

Thanks Zoe and thank you so much Sara for taking the time to try to brainstorm an idea that might work!  And to do so when you're in the midst of some pretty awful stuff with your boys so sick!  So thank you! 

I've been pondering your idea all afternoon/evening.  At first I was ready to jump on it and give it a try but the more I thought about it the more I wasn't sure it would work.  I don't want to be a nay-sayer or shoot the idea down.  I've really given it a lot of thought, but these are a couple concerns I have:

1) As far as I know from the past, Aaron won't go to sleep UT.  He'll just roll around and work himself into a state of OTness.  While he would've gone to sleep after 4 hr A today I think that's because he was still recovering from his horrible night on Thursday.  I think most days he won't go down after 4 hrs A.  As well, the idea of trying to figure out what A times that will result in 2 45 min naps truthfully overwhelms me.  I think it would take weeks to figure out something that would work (if that would even do it) and unfortunately in the past no matter when or how long Aaron's morning nap was (even when it was capped at 30 min), he only slept 30 min in the pm and would scream when I'd PD for that nap.  I don't know if I have it in me to go through that again.
2) 2 times a week I have a mom's group at 10:00 so there's really no way for him to have an am nap on those days and I really don't want to quit that as I think it's really important.  I do want Aaron's sleep to be better but I'd have to stop going to that group if we go back to two naps.
3) Aaron starts at the home daycare soon and it is going to be a gong show.  He will not sleep anywhere else so we know he's going to scream and scream when she tries to put him down for the nap at her house.  I think I'd rather put her (and the other daycare kids) through only one nap screaming fest a day than two.

For those reasons I think I'd honestly rather suffer through the NWs and broken sleep and stick with the current plan, even though it isn't working very well.  Are my concerns reasonable?  Or do you think I should still consider trying two shorter naps?

The only other options I thought of were:

1) move set nap earlier as I've been getting the best naps when he wakes up between 7/7:30 so an A time of 5-5.5 hrs.  Since WU goal is 6:30 (I have to get him up at 6:30 on days that I work) perhaps I should move the nap to 12:00?
2) move BT 30 min earlier to 6:30 to give him more opportunity to tack on at night even though he's not very reliable with this

[ZacsMumme]

Aaron won't go to sleep UT. 

same with my boys! (It wouldn't work in our house either )

Are my concerns reasonable?  Or do you think I should still consider trying two shorter naps?

Oh yes! Totally, like I said, doubt it would work I'd never do it lol but it's just another option YK? I think you shouldn't try them unless you really think he needs 2 naps and nothing else is making you and him happy.

What about set nap of 12, set WU of 6.30 so no sleep ins but WU this time every morning to set his clock. But make BT a little variable, just 30 mins each way based on if nap is a bust, or massive. But aim for something like
 Wu 6.30
Nap 12-1.30 or longer
BT 7 those a times are then reasonable even on 1.5 hrs nap. And tbh not all LOs do long naps. Z used to nap like a king but T only does 2-3 hrs if really tired or re coving from illness/teeth. Otherwise it's always 1.5-2 I thought OT initially but I don't now, he does a longer night than z did.

Setting WU may help you identify his Ut/OT too... .

[Joy-filled]

I really don't think 2 naps will work so if you think my concerns are reasonable I'll stick with 1 nap.

I think you're on to something as far as setting his WU time.  I'd actually thought of that once in the past few weeks but then forgot about it.  The more I ponder it, I think that's what's messing us up since his final WU literally ranges from 5:30-7:30  .  The lie-ins are always because he has frequent and sometimes lengthy EMWs - he never sleeps solid until 7/7:30.  This will make it quite painful to wake him up at 6:30 on days when he, for example, woke up at 5:30 but only finally fell back asleep at 6:15.  However, I do think you might be right that I shouldn't let him sleep in on those days.  Setting his clock so that his day is always starting at the same time sounds very wise to me.

tbh not all LOs do long naps

I'm quite happy to have his nap always short....it's just the silly NWs and EMWs that I could do without as they are clear indicators of OTness to me and I wouldn't mind getting some solid sleep myself  .  On the days he naps longer, his nights are far less interrupted.  There's just something about our current routine that is making him OT and I'm not sure what it is, whether it's that his nap isn't long enough or his A time to BT is too long

I think your plan looks like it's worth a try.  6:30 WU, 12:00 set nap, 7:00 BT (variable by 30 min).  As for DLS I do think I'm going to try the 15 min increments each week, otherwise we'll be getting silly WUs between 4:30-5:30 .  So for the next 4 days I think I'll stick with these times and then shift by 15 min for another 4 days, etc.

I think if his nap is less than 1.5 hrs then I'll do BT 30 min early.  Sound good?

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs Hun.
Give it a shot...let's see if he responds!
Re BT. What about setting it at 7 and if the nap is less than 1.5 then pulling it forward the same amount of time is lost I n the nap, ie 1 hr nap then 30 mins early BT. But if 1hr 15 then just pull it forward 15 mins. Otherwise you may find he is UT at BT.

Tbh I think 1/2 our nap issues are because of variable WU and such long nights

[Joy-filled]

I can't tell you how grateful I am for your input.  DH is a tremendous support to me but he doesn't know enough about baby/toddler sleep to be able to come up with possible solutions.  And the vast majority of my friends have/had angel sleepers so they don't understand and can't offer suggestions the way you, Shiv and the other amazing ladies here have.  Many, many thanks  .

As for BT, he hasn't been UT for BT in a very long time.  He usually crashes within 10 min.  Occasionally he is OT hyper and on those days it takes him a long time to fall asleep but that tends to happen when we've had a really bad stretch of sleep for a few days or his nap was 1 hr or less that day. 

Last night he slept solidly from 7-6:15 (yay for no NWs, likely due to 2 hr 10 min nap that day) but then was so fussy and tired all am today (I'm guessing due to poor night the previous night), yet nap was 1 hr 10 min. He was inconsolably clingy and crying all afternoon....it was well, not a fun day to say the least.  I absolutely had to PD for bed early at 6:25 and he was asleep in literally 3 min.  I'm starting to think that it's the long A time to BT that is causing the night issues so I hesitate to pull BT forward the same amount of time that is lost in the nap  .  Especially now that the nap is going to be earlier and I fear it will still be his Aaron 1 hr 10 min nap special  . I think for now I'll do BT 30 min earlier if nap is less than 1.5 but if he surprises me and is UT then I'll do as you suggest.

[ZacsMumme]

Sounds like you known I'm so well Hun
It's hard when people IRL don't understand I think that's why places like this are so great, there is always someone who has btdt and can say 'ugh - I get it!'

Dyt teeth may be causing  issues? Sorry I prob ask that all.the.time to you, but they really do mess up sleep!

[Shiv52]

I think the set up is totally worth a shot! About the only thing you haven't tried. I really hope it's the solution x

[Joy-filled]

Thanks Shiv! 

Today was a success .  He slept last night from 6:30 pm - 6:10 am with only 2 brief EMWs  .  Then this morning, he was falling asleep when BFing again at 11:15  and it took incredible efforts to keep him awake.  Fell asleep for the nap at 12 on the dot, sat up and cried at 1 hr 18 but then fell back asleep shortly after for another 35 min  . 

I've spent the past 2+ months certain several times that he must be teething but still nothing to show for it.  I am once again pretty sure he has to be teething as he is sooooo clingy and miserable, despite the good sleep last night and the good nap.  Hopefully we'll get these molars soon but if not they have to come eventually!

[ZacsMumme]

Personally if I'm in doubt I medicate, if it makes a diff then I assume teeth
Great night and day