The 2-1 journey continues....

[jcsmom]

How was your night?

[Joy-filled]

He easily fell asleep for 7:00 BT last night and slept until 5:30.  Fell back asleep after 10 min, had another 10 min EMW with final WU at 6:45 so he got about 11.5 hrs night sleep so I consider that a good night.

1 hr 9 min nap today. Would you do EBT or 6:30 on that nap length or stick with 7:00? The plan has been 6:30 if nap is 1.15 or less but I just wanted to double check.

Should I still keep him in the crib for 1.5 hrs when he naps that length? I had been leaving him until 1.5 hrs but I just don't see the point.  Once he's napped an hour or longer if he wakes up and does more than just roll over then that's the end of the nap.  He'll just immediately sit/stand and cry until I get him. He'll only resettle if he rolls over and falls back asleep or if he's only napped 1 sleep cycle of about 35 min. Do you agree I should just get him up when it's clear he's not going back to sleep? 

[Joy-filled]

I should clarify the reason I'm asking if we should do EBT with a 1 hr 10 min nap is that I'm starting to think that's his "norm" so I don't want 6:30 to become the new norm, yk?  I now think I should only do 6:30 BT if the nap is 1 hr or less instead of 1.15 hr or less. I just don't expect him to pull of a 12 hr night with a 1.10 nap.  Perhaps I'll do 6:45 BT.   Or maybe I'm just over thinking everything  .

[Joy-filled]

Well last night proves that after an 11.5 hr night he needs more than a 1 hr 10 min nap.  BT was 6:40 with a few NWs in the evening and then from 3:40 am until 6:03 he kept waking up.  He continued to try to fall back asleep but couldn't and I am not just about to get him up at 6:45 as I have to nurse him before I head off for my first day back at work (!).  I hope he does okay today despite quite a bit of lost sleep.  But at least that's helpful info for me to know that after an 11.5 hr night he needs more than a 1 hr 10 min nap to cope. (silver linings right ).  Not to just figure out how to get him to consistently get a proper nap...   

[jcsmom]

Char our LOs are so similar in their sleep. Do you think the 70 minute nap is UT the he gets OT by bedtime? What A time is he having before his nap? I have found that after a good night (11.5-12++), C needs a huge A time to nap well. We still get 70-75 minunte naps but I an not entirely certain that they are OT. What's your routine?

I have re-read some old posts of my DS (who is so similar to A and C) and he needed a shorter night (11 hours) to nap well. If he napped longer than 2 hours his night was seriously short (10-10.5 hours or he had massive NWs which in retrospect were from too much day sleep) and he got OT and we spiraled. It was awful.  By 15 months I really should have started nap cutting to get a good long night but I didn't and he ended up OT. Sounds weird right, that by napping too long he got OT? But C proved the same thing to me the other day. She napped over 2 hours and her night was short (10.75). I really think you know how much sleep he needs, it's just a matter of finding a balance of A time to get a decent nap (at least 1.5 hours) and have him not OT at BT. Hugs, baby sleep is so hard. Which is why we waited 5.5 years for another baby. I still can't beleive I have been given a challenging sleeper the second time around!

[Joy-filled]

I'm at a loss and feeling quite frustrated today.  I've stuck to the plan yet he remains inconsistent.  His total sleep in a 24 hr period ranges from 11.5 hrs on really bad days/nights to 13.5 hrs on catch up days/nights.  Today is not going well.

After a few poor days he had a catch up night Monday night and slept 12 hrs in total.  Still slept 1 hr 15 min for his nap however didn't wake in the middle of that.  If he has a better night he tends to sleep right through for the 1 hr 8-15 min but if it's a short night he wakes after 1 sleep cycle, cries, then falls back asleep for another one. So he gets a better nap when he has a better night.

Then last night slept 10.5 hrs max (7:10-5:50 this am with several NWs that I did not have the energy to pay attention to so I didn't keep track).  Of course he was then OT for his nap today.  Slept 32 min, woke crying, after awhile fell back asleep for another 22 min then woke crying again.

I really would love to say all of this silly sleep for the past few months and weeks has been teeth but it isn't.  I was certain he was teething a week or 2 ago when he had some extra poor nights but not even a wee bit of a sign of any teeth since then.  He wasn't teething.....so the only other explanation is OTness.  I don't know how he functions when his sleep is so broken and not restorative and I have to be honest I'm starting to worry a bit that it may be affecting his development.  He doesn't say any words and he's 13.5 months.  But I really don't know what to do differently. 

The only patterns I see are:
- if he goes to bed after 7:00 he has a short night and EWs
- He tends to have a better night with a BT between 6:30 and 6:45. 
- His nap tends to not be broken when he has a better night.
- He has less NWs on the rare, rare occasions he naps 1.5 hrs or longer. 
- Whether his A time is 5.5 hrs or 6 hrs or more he very, very rarely naps more than 1 hr 15 min.

It wouldn't bother me one bit if he only slept 1 hr 15 min and then slept 10.5 hrs at night if it was restorative sleep. But the fact that it is so broken means that it isn't quality sleep so I know his sleep needs are not getting met.  Any fresh ideas?  Anybody see something I can't see?

[jessmum46]

Personally I would trust your instincts and if you think he is OT, he probably is.  How long have you done these set times for?  To me, if you've done it for a good week or two and things or no better, they're not the right times and you may need to change things a bit.  What do you think?

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for replying Katherine . I know he's OT because he constantly wakes up but I don't know if he's OT because the set times are too late or if they ate too early and he's in an UT/OT loop. It's been almost 2 weeks trying 12:30 set nap 7:00BT.  His WU and night length continues to vary a lot so his A times are all over yet nap remains short and usually is broken. I don't know what to do to help him get quality uninterrupted sleep. Maybe I need to accept this is just Aaron and he'll never sleep well? 13 months of trying and I guess I'm starting to lose hope.  After a terrible nap yesterday he woke crying at 5:10 this morning and it took an hour for him to fall back asleep. It's really tough as a mom to see/hear him struggle but have every attempt to help him not help,

[Haribo2012]

Hugs hun been following to see how you were getting on! I feel your pain we have so much inconsistency too and I'm wondering if I'll ever get consistant nights or naps! I'm blaming it on wonder week and hoping its SR as he's getting near 17 months old!!
I decided the other day we were going out had enough stress of naps and it was lovely he had 45 min nap in the stroller in the morning and and same in the afternoon and slept a treat that night!
I know not restorative but think we both needed a whatever day...some days I think its needed!! Maybe you could try it and see if it breaks the cycle x

[Joy-filled]

Zoe did you go by specific A times or how did you know what to do?  It's a good idea, but Aaron is notorious for refusing a 2nd nap so I'd fear that if I did an am nap we'd get pm nap refusal even though he's tired and needs it so then he'd have a 30-45 min am nap and then a long A time until BT . 

Fortunately he's still sleeping so I'll wake him at 7:30 and we'll stick with the 12:30 nap today.  Hopefully with the A time being shorter (5 hrs) it will help with the OTness?  I'm sure we'll still get a 1-1.15 hr nap today anyway but hopefully the shorter am A time will help his night sleep.  Thanks for the input.

[Haribo2012]

I've been doing As times of 5.5 hours but since he was ill it all went a bit to pot but we are back to around that A! Once he's caught up I'm going for set naps 12.30 at home, at daycare I just go with it as naps vary soooo much! I've been going a little by LO but NW are awful right now, nothing seems to work! I gave up and rocked to sleep at 1am last night after 2 hours of being awske!
I know what u mean DS will often refuse 2nd nap but if I go somewhere like a playgroup and run him ragged he will nod off in stroller or car on way home!
I'm just wondering if I have to accept this sleep deprivation until canines and SR passed...,so maybe I'll sleep again next year lol (u have to laugh don't u)x

[jessmum46]

With those set times Char what's his average WU at the moment?

[Shiv52]

Hugs Hun xx

How often Has he made it to 7pm bedtime?  Has it mostly been 7pm or generally earlier?

[Joy-filled]

With these set times, average WU?  I'll say what his final WU has been since he has several EMWs regularly and will take from 10 min to 1 hr to fall back asleep.  And honestly, there isn't an average for final WU.  The last week has been 6:23, 6:50, 6;03, 6:10, 5:50 and then 7:30 today. I guess that would make the average perhaps 6:20?  I never get him out of his crib before 6:30.

BT has also been inconsistent as sometimes it takes him 10 min to fall asleep and other times a bit longer (30 min) which tends to happen if he's particularly OT like yesterday.  50% of the time I PD at 6:30 and 50% of the time I PD at 6:50 and BT ranges from 6:35-7:10.

Yes Zoe, sometimes I just have to laugh.  What else can you do .  Well, TBH sometimes sigh, cry, or whatever too, but one day all this will pass.  I just hope he gets good solid sleep before he's 2 ! 

[Joy-filled]

What to do when LO is sick?  Fever and snotty nose.  He has had more sleep in the past 24 hrs than ever in his life.  Slept 6:30 pm last night -7:30 this morning when I woke him up (I didn't know he was sick).  Fell asleep instantly in crib at 12:20 and I just woke him up at 2:30 as I was afraid that after a 13 hr night and a 2 hr 10 min nap today if I let him sleep longer he'd be up all night.  Or do you just let them sleep all day if they need to?  What do people normally do?  What do you suggest for a super touchy little sleeper like Aaron?  Doing what I've done? 

Should I stick with 7:00 BT today?  That would only make for 9 hrs 20 min of A time in the day but he's just so tired and out of it.