Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[Scottishmummy]

Good you got extra sleep last night. Fingers crossed for tonight.

Do you think she might have variable A times throughout the day? Some babies need shorter A at start of day, some at end.
Or variable depending on how well she has slept at night or the day before?

The 2.5 before bed after a shortish (?OT) nap sounds good. Is that always the case?
The first nap sounds ok too but you could try slightly less A if you think she'd settle better closercto 3hrs 3hrs e.g. Put down before 10 to be asleep by 10

Yes it sounds like 2nd nap was OT...& she needed an earlier nap

She's a puzzle, isn't she!

Re crying on going into room...not sure whether this is OT or UT..my DD fusses on going into bedroom for both of these!

[labrodyk]

I think she most definitely could have a variable A time in the day but goodness knows what they are. Bec and I have tried every combination with no luck. She settled SO much better on a shorter A but short sleeps. I really have no clue.

Her first sleep of 1hr20 was OT I think and of course so was the second.

Last night she woke at 3.10am whinging/cryibg but after 30 minutes she hadn't resettled so DH fed her. Unfortunately she then cried and rolled around for 15/20 minutes before falling back to sleep? Does that mean she doesn't need that feed? should I be sticking to trying to get rid of it? If so, how?

She shows so many tired signs (eye rubbing, grizzling, yawning, ear pulling, red eyelids/eyebrows, no interest in toys and hyperactivity) well before the suggested A times which makes her the most difficult puzzle ever. I've tried to just go with the flow and put her down when I think she's tired but it just made her OT from short naps.

[labrodyk]

ok, so we actually got a proper nap today! I have no idea why or how but it happened. Now for the consistency which never comes, lol.

NW: 3.10 (as comments below - not sure I should be feeding in the night?)
S: 4.10-6.26am

WU: 6.26
Nap 1: 9.35; 9.38-11.38
^^ NO CRYING and slept 2 hours
Nap 2: 2.38; 2.43-4.06
^^ Tired signs from 1 hour awake and cried terribly at PD I had to pick up and cuddle to calm then put back down. Left the room and she still cried until she fell asleep. OT nap of 1hr20 too...
BT: 6.55; just before 7.20 asleep.
^^  Only whinging at BT so an improvement. I didn't want to make her OT and thought 3 hrs after a 1hr20 nap would be ok?

She slept until 5 where she cried out for a bit but settled for another 40 minutes but crying again at 5.44. Should have I fed her here and put back to bed? I let her grizzle until 6 where I got up and started the day. Makes it hard to be consistent because unlike yesterday she was absolutely shattered and was OT for her nap (PD at 9.44) and she was so upset and falling asleep in my arms and only slept 1hr 20m

Nap 2: falling asleep in my arms after bottle. Went to bed too to put her down. Started sucking her thumb!! Into bed at 1.00; cried and then lay quietly until 1.15 but woke crying at 1.45!!!

[Scottishmummy]

I am not person to ask about night feeds...my DD is still having up to 3 a night! I need to cut them back soon but opt for the easy resettle to sleep atm.

2 days ago  looks like a pretty good day with around 3hr A times all day.  Yesterday looks like she had OT hangover from the longer first A that spilled into her afternoon.

Out of interest, how much day and night sleep do you think she needs? Just wondering what you feel would be right for her/what you'd like to aim for in terms of nap length and length of night?

[labrodyk]

So when I stick to the A times to be consistent she pulls completely random naps - like today! Her night was amazing at 12.5hrs after her no sleep and long A to bed yesterday but then despite showing all her tired signs and getting very cranky slept only 40 minutes in the am, followed by an OT nap just over an hour and then I had to squeeze in a catnap in the evening and she slept for about 40 minutes until 5.25pm. BT of 8.00, only 2.5rs and yet she won't tack on in the morning... Almost better to push her through 4+ hrs until bedtime but I don't want her becoming OT.

To be honest, I don't actually mind how long she sleeps, as long as she is taking restorative naps (not catnapping) and isn't waking through the day and night OT! I obviously can't make her sleep but since my 3yo does a 6-6 routine, ideally Audrey would be in bed no later than 7/7.30 but I can't seem to make any of our days work or be consistent enough to maintain anything. I worry about her A's and how long they are given how much she protests to go down and wakes up before 1.5hrs every sleep and I can't resettle her.

I really don't think I'm asking much to have 2 x 1.5hr naps a day rather than this constant not-knowing what we're going to get days?!

[becj86]

I wonder can you pinpoint when she's getting cranky - is it more consistently a certain amount of time from WU or a certain time by the clock? Just wondering about set naps again.

I also wonder if given she wakes at 40min, not 45, a 1:20 nap is two sleep cycles.

[labrodyk]

Hi bec! She shows tired signs - rubs her eye constantly, droopy eyelids, red eyebrows, unhappy with toys shortly after wakeup...

I find it difficult to work out our evenings because if she does have a 1hr20 minute nap at say 1pm then BT is 5.30?!

After those 3 crappy naps yesterday she slept through until 5am where she kept crying out and then stopping but her eyes were shut! She eventually went back for a bit longer sleep but woke at 6.15. So a little over 10hr night. She's already cranky at it's only 7am

[becj86]

I honestly do not think you can attribute all her crankiness to tiredness. Is she yawning? I just wonder - DS yawned a lot and he was not tired - he had fluid built up in his ears which played with his sleep but also made it difficult to hear, sometimes painful when lying down, sometimes not. It doesn't have to be infected/inflamed to be painful.

Eyes - allergies? She's pretty young for antihistamines (obviously talk to a Dr) but is it worth asking about grass or some food allergy? Itchy eyes is pretty horrid - that could be part of the variability, yk?

[labrodyk]

Yeah she yawns, rubs her eyes and gets fussy all at the same time! I had my mother's group over yesterday and they all agreed she was exhausted.

She's really started to take to her thumb so I don't know if she's teething or finding a comfort. I'm not too keen on her sucking her thumb but probably not much I can do about it.

Yesterday she slept 2hrs in the am whilst we had a tradesman kicking tiles around on our roof and drilling, yet was woken after 40 minutes by this annoying dog barking (which seems to only bark at sleep times, lol).

NW: 4.50-5.30ish crying out sporadically
WU: 6.15
E: 7.00. Solids
A:
E: 8.45. Bottle
S: 9.15; 9.20ish-11.20ish (through horrifically loud noise)
E: 12.00. Solids
A:
E: 1.30. Bottle
A: had to take DS to the doctor
S: 2.45; 2.50- 3.30 (woken by barking dog)
A:
E: 4.00. Solids
A:
E: 5.50. Bottle
BT: 6.10. Asleep by 6.30
NW: 10.30 (crying call out)

WU: 5.30. Playing for 30 minutes before crying. Started sucking thumb and was quiet between cry-outs until 6.30.
OOB: 6.30

It's a kindy day today so will be a day of short naps and waking her up

[becj86]

S: 9.15; 9.20ish-11.20ish (through horrifically loud noise)

DS would sleep through a riot if he knew what it was. It was sudden noises he couldn't account for that woke him. Has she met the dog? Even just over the fence to know its a dog barking?

She's getting plenty of sleep - she really shouldn't be looking exhausted all the time. That means either the quality of her sleep is not good - apnoea, discomfort (though I doubt it given she's sleeping pretty well); or there's something else going on. I know I keep saying that but I just really can't figure out how she could possibly that tired.

[labrodyk]

I wish I knew where the dog was exactly, we've only just moved here and I can't figure out where the barking comes from but it sounds like a big old dog sad but it seems to know when Audrey is transitioning between sleep cycles bahaha!!

Today when she was getting cranky I tried more food instead and she perked up so I'll try that. I did 3hrs off a 30 minute nap in the car on the way to and from preschool so she could be a tad OT but hoping she has enough sleep now to push her through to BT. How long do you think her A should be to bed now? Still 3hrs? I did 2/2.5 last night and she took 20-30 minutes to fall asleep (she wasn't crying, just moaning and settling) after a 45 minute nap and woke at 5.30. She did do an 11hr night so it's more the WU time than the length that I'd like to fix!

So this afternoon she's slept 12.20-1.48. I left her as she didn't seem ready to get up and she was trying so hard to go back to sleep. Definitely the reason I don't think 1hr20min is restorative enough. I don't mind the length but how do I get her to bed at a reasonable time in regards to A, not making her OT? 3hrs is 4.45, and then 3 to bed is 9/9.30!

Well BT at 5.45pm didn't work! She flaked out quickly but woke 30 minutes later and is having difficulty resettling I'm going to have to Shush/pat her back...really don't know what to do after short naps, especially in the afternoon!

[becj86]

I'd generally advise to push til you know she's OT and resettle the 30min OT nap waking and cross fingers for a longer PM nap to push the day out a bit later and get BT to a reasonable point.

Today when she was getting cranky I tried more food instead and she perked up so I'll try that.

Why didn't I think of that?!

[labrodyk]

So, this thumb sucking business is getting extreme. It's ALLL the time now. So what was tricky trying to work out A times is now impossible because she's using her thumb to settle and pacify. Laying in bed awake for considerable time before talking....

Last night she cried out at 3am but must have sucked her thumb and the same at 5.30am. She was awake when I woke at 6.50 but no idea when she actually woke. Cried all the way to kindy and back but was sucking her thumb in the car, gave her a bottle and then put down to bed at 10.05. She woke after 30 minutes but fell back to sleep but only for 40 minutes so 1hr10/15 minutes at most all up yet she's just lying in bed sucking her thumb again so when do I get her up? How do plan next nap? It all falls right at kindy pickup time! Grrrrr

[labrodyk]

Yesterday afternoon was a 30 minute nap from 2.45-3.15 in the car. Pushed through to 6pm bedtime and she was fine but really unsettled from 2am- morning wakeup. She kept crying out and then settling. Sometimes for 30-40 minutes but also every 5-10 minutes. Is that OT? I think she might be teething the top teeth but I can't see anything yet.

[becj86]

Not a usual sign of OT - more so pain

Thumb sucking still going/increasing? Just another thing that points towards reflux/ears to me...