18mo taking 45mins-1hr to settle at BT-please help

[*foxy*]

She had a 2 hour nap from 12-2, we started wind down at 6 she went to sleep at 7.45. I'm actually pulling my hair out

[clairebear79]

Oh hun

She obviously needed a longer nap since she took one but what happened at BT IDK.  I wonder if 6 was too early to start WD.  Try not to stress too much & see how she sleeps tonight.  Tomorrow is a new day!

[Kay Dee]

How did last night go? I guess she needs a decent A time to bed after a 2hr nap even if she's been up early....

My DD is one of those who dropped her nap at 18months. She's 21months now and is back to having a catnap every day but only for 10mins and then she sleeps 7.30pm - 7am. It was a tough few months cutting and dropping the nap but it's so much better now she's consistently doing good nights, and she was never going to do that with a nap. How low sleep needs do you think your LO is? Do you think she'd be okay on a much shorter nap, like 45mins, assuming she has a good night behind her?

x

[*foxy*]

Hi

She SSTN but woke at 5.30am. I do think she needs a good A time to bed but no matter what we do BT, she still takes forever to go to sleep and needs our help. We're not getting very far with GW so we're STILL staying with her which is driving me nuts too.

She was at the childminders today and only had a 45 min nap from about 12.15-1 I think. She usually sleeps well there.
We didnt get home until 6pm so its not going to be an early BT.

How do you measure how low her sleep needs are? To be honest I have no idea what she needs anymore, every day is totally different to the next. We know that she'll wake somewhere between 5.30 and 6.30am. She goes down brilliantly for her nap usually between 12-12.30 depending on what time she wakes. Its anyones guess how long she'll nap for. BT is a nightmare but we know that no matter how long it takes her to finally go to sleep she's usually down by 7.30/7.45pm

Does it sound like shes low sleep needs? Nothing seems to be working so Im willing to try anything

[Kay Dee]

It's hard to know. I think if she's waking early no matter what then chances are she is low sleep needs. It's tricky though, I found it so hard to balance low sleep needs and avoid OT. But short naps and long nights worked best for us. I think if you do go for a very short nap and if early bedtimes are difficult then a later nap might work best. So between 1-2pm and then you still have a reasonable A to bed but hopefully short enough to avoid OT.

How did last night go in the end??

x

[*foxy*]

She finally fell asleep at 7.45pm so that was a 14.25 hour day with a 45min nap!!

We had one brief NW at 12 and she was up at 5.30am

Any ideas on what we should do today??

[Kay Dee]

Wow. I was really hoping that the shorter nap would help. How is her form today? Do you want to try the shorter nap for a few days to see if it makes a difference? It can take some time to see results. If you think it's too much for her and she's getting OT after a few days then you can always go back to a longer nap.

Just for comparison my DD was on a 45min nap from 13months She went to one nap around 9 months and it was 1hr 40mins (she'd wake herself after this time) until just before she turned 12months when we started to wake early. I gradually cut the nap but it wasn't until we got to 45mins that her nights went back to 11.5/12hrs. It took me 6 weeks to get to that stage as I couldn't believe that she needed so little but any more and we'd get settling problems or EW. That worked fine until 16/17months when she started screaming when put down for naps and bedtime. I assumed OT so tried earlier naps/earlier bedtimes/longer naps but that just made her wake earlier and earlier so I went for a 30min nap and that worked fine for a while until it needed to totally go at 18months....not sure it helps but just wanted to let you know you're not alone with one who doesn't do good nights with a long nap...

x

[*foxy*]

Hi

Thanks KayDee, thats really good to know. I talk to other mums and you can just see that they think Im doing something wrong because M doesnt sleep well. It is a scary thought cutting her naps that much but as you say if they are low sleep needs then maybe she only needs a really short nap and we'll get longer nights.

Ive put her down at 12 because she was knackered! She is very dark eyed but we've been to the park this morning and she was fine. She's a little bit sensitive but overall seems ok even though she's had so little sleep over the last few days!

I just cant believe after a 14 hour day she still takes that long to go to sleep even with our help, you'd think she'd just crash out but she never ever does.

I think that maybe right now she's not going to cope on the shorter naps, shes had 10 hour nights for the last 3 nights! I'd like to try to catch her up a bit and then try the shorter nights in a couple of days? Or should I just go for it? She goes down so brilliantly for her naps, there is definitely no refusal.

 As for BT's I have no idea what to do. Early BT's just dont happen, the best we have managed is 20 mins early than usual so I think the naps are the only way to catch her up.

I dont know what to do today!!!! She had 45 mins yesterday and still woke at 5.30am but you said that it can take a while for her nights to become longer?

[Kay Dee]

Totally up to you if you feel she needs it but I would just be concerned that the nights will stay at 10hours with a long nap. But then, as you say, she won't be able for a really short nap after a short night...it's a vicious circle  

IIWM I would probably do a longish nap, but less than 2hrs. Maybe 1.5? But then I would NEVER have gotten a 2hr nap out of DD at that age!

[*foxy*]

Maybe I try for something like a 1 hour 15min nap?

Your right, if I let her sleep too long then she'll be catching up in the day rather than catching up at night. Ok, Ill cap her nap at 1 hour 15 so she'll have 12-1.15 and then BT will hopefully be at 7.15/7.30. Is that too much A time before bed though?

[Kay Dee]

Ha! Posts crossed. How brave are you feeling? I think 1hr 15-30mins would be good. Will hopefully let you do a reasonably early bed.

[*foxy*]

Im feeling brave! Ok, Ill cap at around 1hr 15-30mins. And then try for a 7pm BT? Does that sound reasonable?

[Kay Dee]

Sounds like a plan. If you get a better night tonight you could try for 1hr tomorrow. Hopefully that'll help things.

It's daunting but IME once you do find that magic nap length things fall into place pretty quickly. It's just there's a lot of trial and error getting there....

How is the gradual withdrawal going? I do think that things will improve on that front too once the nap routine is in place.

Best of luck for tonight x

[*foxy*]

Thankyou, we'll keep our fingers crossed and see how it goes!

Um, GW isnt going too well. She gets herself into such a state. We've actually gone backwards which is really frustrating. She hates going into her cot at BT (nap time is ok) she kicks the cot sides, throws herself about the cot, kicks up with both her legs and bangs down on the mattress then we're also got head butting of the top of the cot sides too when she stands up. I try to completely ignore all of this behaviour and stand by the door but she knows that if she head butts the cot then she'll get my attention because shes hurt herself. If I go over and very calmly lie her back down without making a big deal of it and say Megan its time to go to sleep and stroke her back until shes calm then as soon as I move away she goes mad and does it again.

Sometimes she doesnt head butt but you'll think shes asleep then 2 seconds later shes standing up and starts crying. I try not to go over to her but just use my voice to calm her, she cries for about 10 mins, settles and again I think shes asleep, 2 seconds later shes standing up again, crying. This goes on and on until it gets so late that I help her because shes so OT that she cant settle herself. All she wants is a hand on her back or to hold my hand but I need it to stop!

[Kay Dee]

Yikes! That's tough going. It sounds like you're doing great though. If she's getting herself into that state then there's not much else you can do. The only time we had screaming at bedtime was when we needed a huge nap cut. I'm hoping it's the same for you and she'll settle better when she has a shorter nap and (hopefully) earlier bedtime.

Another thought is would she settle well without any crying if you put a hand on her back right at the start? I'm just wondering if you go right back to doing that and making sure she's happy and secure going into her cot first, before going back to the gradual withdrawal again. I don't want you to go backwards if you feel you've made progress but it sounds like she may have developed a bad association with going to bed and maybe that's the first thing to address? Especially if it makes bedtime less stressful for you?

Maybe someone with more experience of GW can put me straight on that one if I'm way off