Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

[Lilysmummy]

Hi girls:-) Funny that sleeping in thing - can often leave them So grumpy I have found too! We did a 1.15 this morning then 2 hr this arvo which was not normal but very nice. EBT's seem to put everything out of order for my DS, total opposite to my DD who I could put down at 5:30 if need be and she'd still sleep till 7! They are all so different. Tried for CN at 4:30 and DS not impressed. Put him down a 7 and he had a moan for couple of mins, litle cuddle and then down. Have yet to hear from him fingers crossed.....

How you two doing?

[jessmum46]

Went for EBT last night - was asleep by 6.15pm.  Then grumbled on and off from 9.30pm which turned into "I need you" just before 10pm, shh-pat to calm her down then she resettled and slept to 5.30am, had a feed, played on and off then back to sleep to 7.15am!

So a 13h night with at least 11.5h of sleep.  And yet still grouchy this morning.......

Have posted on general sleep issues about whether to wake in the morning - my instinct says no if naps the day before were a bit rubbish but I wonder if set naps might be better than set A times but wildly different nap times?  Just thinking...........

[Lilysmummy]

Its so frustrating isn't it but unfortunately I think it is really hard to get the naps during the day to start working without a standard WU time every morning. Once they are in a pattern and things have settled then once in a while it wouldn't hurt but till then... BUT thats what I found first time around and this time is totally different so who knows! We had a fantastic night last night which leads to me wonder if I have judged DS way off and he can cope with the long arvo.... keeps surprising me as they do.
Could the grouchy thing be something else other than sleep? Teeth maybe?

[*Kara*]

Re: set naps.  They do work to help regulate wake up time but should only be used on Textbook or Angel babies

ETA - just had a couple of questions about the above statement.  The main reason is that OT is an issue when using set naps as they are often suggested when you are in a horrible UT/OT loop that is leaving you with earlier starts to the day that anyone wants... generally 5-6am type things!  So, if baby is touchy and you push to a 4 hr A time using a set nap time, you are only going to compound the OT as this baby type is super sensitive to OT... it certainly will not help in the long run

[jessmum46]

How's everyone doing?  We've pretty much ditched the CN - decided it was just too much hassle!  So we're on 2 naps with EBT if the second one is rubbish.  First nap still stuck around 1h15ish....have made it to 3h15 (!!!!!) first A today so will see what that does...........eeek scary!  Not even 6.5 months yet...

On the very very plus side, no night feeds for 3 days now - yippee!!  They'll probably be back tonight

[Lilysmummy]

Hey thats fantastic! If you can sleep at night you can handle anything!

We have been away and DS is getting a couple of teeth cutting through at the moment but in saying that he has been really good. Either doing the 2 naps and normal bedtine or yesterday did 2 short naps and a 20 min catnap to get him through so its a bit of playing it by air day by day....  we are still going down at 9am for first nap and I think we'll ned to get that later soon as he has started waking at 6-6:30, will talk to 7 but I think its because he needs longer A time....

[jessmum46]

Urgh, such a mess of a day...........3 naps again.........first time in over a week...........

Got a 37 min first nap today (has been consistently at least an hour all week)....think it may have been a bit OT as when I worked it out her night sleep was a bit under 10.5h when it's normally at least 11.  So we've been playing catch-up all day.  Got a 90 min second nap with a lot of persuasion and a bit of shh-pat, but that finished at 2.20 so still way too long to even early bedtime.....managed to AP a CN, now she's taking ages to settle for bedtime.  Not sure if OT from the day or UT from CN too close to bedtime or what..............ick.  Hope you're all doing a bit better than us today!

[Kangarruu]

Hi everyone,
I'm so glad this forum exists! We're having some nap issues and I'm hoping someone here has some insight! DD's is 7 mo tomorrow and her routine changes based on whether I or my husband are  home When my schedule permits me to put her down for the first two naps, she generally does more than an hour per nap (can go up to 2 hours for her morning nap, and over an hour for the second nap) On those days we have been skipping the cat nap based on how she's doing. The problem is I need to go back to work full time and am no longer available for her second nap.

DH just graduated from law school so he is home with her while looking for a job. He is rarely able to get her down for her second nap unless he's out walking with her.  DD also refuses the bottle so DH brings her to my office for the 3 pm feeding.
Till now I was home for the 11 am feeding so that wasn't an issue, but now that I will be gone we'll probably run into some food routine issues as well we've been working with the sippy cup, which she enjoys playing with, but doesn't get any significant drinking out of.

Basically on the days I'm not home she has been staying up from around 11 - 2:30 when she passes out on the way to my office. She only gets around 30 minutes in if she falls asleep on the way and then is too wake to sleep on the way back. If DH keeps her up till after the feeding she will generally fall asleep on the way back home and sleep for 40-an hour, barring noise on the way home that wakes her up. This is obviously not ideal, as she is OT in the afternoon and needs constant attention. She also is much harder to put down at bedtime. Recently it has also been affecting her morning nap, which has been shortening.

DH has been winding DD down around the 2 hour and 15 min mark. Should he try extending her A time? the problem is that he needs a half hour to get to my office so that either means he would need to wake her from her nap or delay her feed. Thoughts?

[amayzie]

Oh ho tricky for you! As far as the sippy goes- keep working on it. My guy rarely drinks if he's not thirsty- and NEVER did then. When he was on 4 BF a day he just wasn't thirsty at other times!

How many naps is she on at the moment? 3? If he's having trouble getting her down then i'd suggest to push up the A time.. Can you just pop up your EASY so we can get a clear idea how your day is currently organised?

[Kangarruu]

Tricky indeed. The last 2 weeks have really been a downward spiral. We started having multiple NWs and I'm not sure if it's related to teething, stomach/gas issues, or accidental parenting.

 Thursday night DD woke at 8:30, 10, was up every 5-10 minutes between 1:30 and 4:30 and then woke at 6 for the day.

 Friday we went away to a friend's house (pretty much the 3rd time she hasn't slept home since she was born). She was in a tiny pack and play and woke up pretty much every hour. We were going to stay there again the next night since we needed to stay late and didn't want to interrupt her sleep, but she woke 4 times before 10 pm so we packed her up and drove home. I gave her a dream feed when we got home at 12 (bad mama, I know). Yet she still woke at around 2:30 and was up and down till around 4:30. Then she woke at 5:30 and I was so exhausted I ended up letting her cry it out for the first time She alternated between crying and just being restless and I think she fell asleep until 6:40 (I think this since I woke up at 6:40, which would have been impossible if she was still making any noise). I still feel terrible about it.

I've been working on not picking her up  (or doing so very briefly) and soothing her in the crib. It works fine...until I try to leave. If I'm not there with my hand on her stomach she cries. I'm basically stuck there until she decides she's ready to go back to sleep, which can take an hour.

Sorry for the rant... Now to actually answer your question: Here is today's EASY based on what I think was a 6:40 wake up.

S 6:40 WU
E 7 BF
A 8:20 breakfast (pears, first time) She was pretty disinterested but I guess she was already getting tired
S 9:10 Naps have started shortening again since everything went downhill
A 10
E 11 BF
A 12:30 lunch (the rest of her pears since she barely ate)
S 12:50 Another short nap
A 1:30
S 4:50-5:30 cat nap outside
A 6:10 bath
E 6:30
S 7:30
NW 8:30

She had 3 similar naps on Saturday. We had been working on dropping the cat nap, and were well on our way with two long afternoon naps, until mama decided to go make some cash. Sigh.

[amayzie]

Hi hon- how are things now? are the night wakings continuing?

[Kangarruu]

Hi amayzie- Actually much better! It seemed to be a temporary glitch (yay). We're working on getting both those afternoon naps in now. I'm running into a funny problem with her activity times and eating. We've pushed her A time since she seems to just have no interest in napping earlier than almost 3 hours. But now she sleeps right into her next feeding. I figure many people run into this issue around this developmental age. Am I supposed to be doing something different?

[amayzie]

You just move the E times out too- so after about 4 months it turns into more of a 4+ hour easy. Generally we would do a long gap of 4.5, 5 or even 6 hours between feeds in the morning, with sometimes only 3 hours between feeds then in the afternoon. This is fine. After 6 months or so you'll be adding the solids in and that helps tide them over.

[Catloops]

Hi Ladies!  I'm going to jump in if for nothing else but to vent.    My LO is 6.5 mo and I don't think she's ever STTN.  I think her waking between 1.45-3 each night is HW and I need to stop nursing her then and maybe W2S.  Then, the last few nights she's been waking several times between 4 &6.  We're slowly weaning the swaddle and she has a paci to sleep. 

DD1 is 6 and DS just turned 5 and their afternoon schedules are making stretching her to 2 naps crazy.  I'm trying to extend her A time to 3 hours and can let her have a 2hr am nap, but we have to leave for school at 2.30 in the afternoon, so pm naps are short.  Then, she has a long afternoon or will have to keep the CN longer, which creates issues in getting everyone to bed by 7.30.  EBT is tough too because of evening activities---can't wait for DS's soccer season to be over (although I love to watch him play)! Oh and did I mention that DH is out of town for several weeks??  It's all me, all the time (with some help from gramma) and I'm tired.

I am soooo ready to get our nights sorted out.  Thanks for letting me vent! 

[Papaya]

Hi and welcome Catloops Wow, sounds busy in your household - that school run really doesn't make it easy to get a good routine, does it?! When is the soccer season over - maybe best to keep a short cn at least until then so you can do EBT?

Do you do a dreamfeed? It's not uncommon for bf LOs to still have one NF at this age...so if you get rid of the MOTN feed and find she's waking at 4/5am it *could* be hunger...