Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

[Catloops]

Hi Papaya--

Soccer ends next week thank goodness.  My mom has stepped in over the last week or so to stay with her so she can have a longer nap while I do the school run.  Trying to get a good 3 hour A time schedule going although our nights have been crap lately.  EBT doesn't seem to make much difference, but the paci doesn't help either.  With DH out of town, I'm trying to work up the nerve to cold turkey it by myself, but it's just so hard to deal with all three with min amts of sleep.  She's been dealing with a cold/congestion for a few weeks too--seeing the dr today to check on that again.  She does get a df, usually between 9.30-10 (so that I can get to bed), but generally wakes sometime between 1-2.30 every night.  And then it's up and down every hour or two the rest of the night until I get her up at 6.45 at the earliest. 

At wit's end at the moment due to lack of sleep.  I don't remember having this many issues with getting DD1 and DS sleeping through the night...but each one is different.  

[Berkley24]

Hi Ladies, thought I would join in on this thread and maybe get some advice. We are currently struggling with 3-2 nap transition for DD. DD is 6.5mths old.  We have for the past two weeks been doing an early BT of 6:30pm. She has been waking between 7-8am and goes down for her first nap between 9 and 10 (wake time is 1hr40min - 2hrs). We sometimes get only a 45 min nap in here and sometimes a 1hr15 nap. Her 2nd Nap is the one we are struggling with. Her tired signs have been hard to read lately and we're not sure if we are putting her down OT or UT. We have toyed with 2hr, 2 1/2 hr and 3hr A times before second nap and she will again either do 45min or 1hr15 nap. Everyday there is always one 45min nap and one 1hr15min nap. What ends up happening is her last wake time is sometimes between 2 and 3 and then no time for CT at the end of the day. She has been having a few night wakings (around 2 and 4 and again at 6). Not sure if this is because she's not getting the sleep she needs during the day.

We have tried getting more food into her, but she will only drink 5oz bottles (sometimes 6oz) every 4 hrs and has not taken to solids yet. So she is drinking about 20oz -24oz a day.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Papaya]

Hi Felicia,

I would guess she's UT for both those naps hun, especially the first one - 2 hours is a really short A time for this age! Both 45 mins and 1hr15 are common UT nap lengths. When you see what seem to be tired signs in the morning, I would try to distract her with a low-key activity, and try to gradually stretch out that A time to 2.5 hours. You ideally want a 1.5-2 hour nap here - then you can probably do a slightly longer second A to get a good pm nap.

I'm not sure what milk intake should be at this age tbh, but I wouldn't worry about her not taking many solids yet - food before one is just for fun, so plenty of time for her to get more interested

Catloops, hope your LO is feeling better and glad you're getting some help from your mum   Have you posted on the props board for advice about the paci? She might be just about old enough to start learning how to replug herself so it wouldn't be a prop anymore - more of a comfort item.

[Catloops]

Papaya--

Turns out she had strep, so we're knocking that out with meds.  I decided to bite the bullet this weekend and wean the paci.  She sucks on her fingers during the day, so I figure she'll eventually find them at night too.   I introduced a couple of loveys a few weeks ago just for this purpose, so I just have to stay strong over the next few days and see us both through this.  I figure I'm losing sleep anyway, so it might as well be for the weaning rather than the replugging.  Of course, it doesn't help that she appears to finally be cutting her first tooth!  So much for all the folks who told me #3 would be easy.

[Berkley24]

Okay...so this morning DD woke at 7:30 we put her down for Nap 1 at 9:50 and she slept for 1hr1/2. We figured we would try a wake time after that for another 2 1/2 hrs bringing us to 1:50pm. She was showing tired signs but would not go to sleep and played/talked in her crib. I figured at the 3hr mark she would have put her self to sleep. Now she's been awake for 3 1/2hrs and still won't go down. My husband took her for a walk earlier and he said she didn't sleep, but could she have been to relaxed and not enough A time for her?? Not sure what's going on bc this isn't the first time this has happened. So frustrated! Haha

[Papaya]

Hmmm, she could have been UT still, having had a more restorative nap in the morning. Did you say she can normally do 2hr30 after a shorter morning nap? Hope she went down for you eventually! Perhaps if you get a long am nap tomorrow you could push to 2hr45.

[Charjanemom]

Help!!!

I always read on here but have only posted a few times. Charlotte has been on easy since she was 2 weeks old. Things have been amazing other then no matter what we do we often get a short pm nap. We are starting to get some more decent afternoon naps. Mornings are always good. The last month the cat nap has been a fight. This past week we have had nw and a few ew. Charlotte has sttn without a peep since she was 2 months old so obviously we have been lucky but now I'm so anxious and not sleeping myself because I'm worried about her and not having a restful sleep. I'm thinking after following this thread we need to drop the cat nap. I will go ahead and post our day yesterday and last night so someone can take a look and give me some ideas

She used to wake up between 7-8. Sometimes after a rough nap day she would sleep till 830!

This was yesterday
Ew 630 settled herself back on and off
W 720
E 730 - breast feed both sides 10 min total
Solids 830 - 3 tbsp fruit and veg
Nap 9:30-1045 - rare usually 1.5-2 hrs. I put her down too early I think. I was counting part of her hanging out in crib as awake time
E 1130 7oz bottle
Solids 1230
Nap 1:30-3:00. Usually this nap is 30-45 minutes. Have tried all the tricks to extend but has never worked and for my sanity gave up trying after a month. I actually had to wake her from this nap cuz we had a bday party to go to
E 345
Cat nap 530-600
Solids 610
730 bedtime routine started
S 8

Then we had nw at 145am babbling then 230 nw whining then nw 330but went back to sleep. Then slept till 705.
Do we pull early bed time and drop the cat nap?? Ugh I'm not sure what to do and feel so lost and sad about this. Please help.

[amayzie]

Hi hon- looks like it's 3-2 time! Try not to be too lost, it's not the beginning of the end (i thought it was! ) it's just a transition, things will definitely settle down again once it's done! Start by pushing those A times up- just 10/15 minutes every couple of days. Do this till the A times are closer to 3 hours and you'll be able to first drop the cat nap and bring BT forward, and then as the A times stretch out to a good 3 hours the bed time will move back to the normal time again.

As you've read i'm sure- the cat nap will be causing early waking, bed time refusal and night waking... most of that will go once you can get the A times up enough to drop it.

[Charjanemom]

Thanks for the reply. I posted on night waking a too and we had 2 great days of longer naps and no room for a cat nap with moving bed time ahead a bit. When do I increase again. I don't want to go too far if we are getting good naps and then get short over tired ones. Today was wonky as she woke at 630 I left her as she wasn't crying she feel asleep for 15 mins the was up again. So by the time she was ready for first nap she was overtired although she did manage to nap 1 hr 40 mins but then this afternoon she pulled 30 minutes. Hasn't happened in 4 days!! I'm pretty sure she was overtired. Even though she had a good am nap after being up too long can overtired hang on to effect later nap? I kept her up the same amount before pm nap that I have the past few days 2 hr 45 min. So today we have to pull a cat nap. Yep she is over tired as I write this she is fussing 1.5 hrs later. Ugh!!

[Charjanemom]

Ok I need some encouragement. 3 times this week we were able to do 2 long naps and ditch the CN. The first day we did we had a great night with no NW. Last night she was partying in her for an hour. 345am! I don't understand what to do. She used to be the best sleeper.

[Papaya]

Hugs! How old is she now? And what's your EAS with the 2 naps?

[tel33015]

Hello, hope you all don't mind if I join the thread 

DH and I are currently going through NW and EW, been never ending actually, can't think of the last time he slept until 6 and I am tired. Thankfully DD1 and DD2 sleep through!

DS is almost 6 months old and I have posted in a few other areas to get some ideas and I am starting to do the 3-2 transition. At the moment he wakes at 3, 4ish and then up around 5:30ish. We don't get him out of his cot until 6:30 or a bit later if he is happy and most of the time he is. He does not really wake crying ever so are these wakings UT? He does have a dummy and is swaddled.

The part of the 3-2 transition I am not sure about is the EBT...I have pushed his morning sleep so far to 8:45 and he will sleep for 2 hrs (more if we don't wake him!). Then next A time I have pushed to 2.5 hrs so far. Most times he will sleep for 2 hrs but if its less than that then wake up is usually around 3? Have not quite gone the 3 hours A time after 2nd nap yet and that means a really EBT? But its also too late to do a catnap?

I am really at a loss with this, so any advice would be great. Do I do the 5:30-5:45 pm bedtime just until I get the A times more...Am I just re-enforcing EW by these EBT's. He has never given us a 12 hour night, certainly not with no NW....I am pushing this drop of CN too quick?

Thanks

[Papaya]

Hi

Hugs, this is the toughest part of the transition, especially when LO is waking early. They're not actually EWs though, if he's been in bed by around 6...just early! I would keep gradually pushing that first A in particular a little later, and your WU should follow.

If your second nap is short and/or finishes too early to get through to a reasonable bedtime (whatever you consider that to be - on your current routine maybe 6pm), I would try to AP a very short catnap after about 2.5hrs A - just 15 mins in the stroller, sling, dancing in your arms, etc. Then you can do bedtime only an hour or so later. You'll be dropping this catnap as soon as your other A times creep up a little, so it doesn't matter about the AP If second nap is a good one and finishes after 3, I think I would push for a 6pm bedtime, but keep the evening low-key. What do you think?

[tel33015]

Thanks so much Papaya  Sorry for you to have to reply to me twice too 

I had this scenario today, woke at 3pm after 1.40 hr sleep and I could not put him to bed at 5:30-5:45pm, not only is that too early but I don't even get home from work until then and DH had everthing.to do. So DH put him down at 5:10 (2.10hr A, bit shorter than I would have done but DH does a great job) and I got him up after 30 mins and he was asleep by 7:15. Is that too soon? We have only had the EBT on days he had no CN which has not been many but thought I would try without to see if it would stop the NW/EW.

Your advice is great, feels much better getting ideas, even 3rd child round  I will increase his morning A time tomorrow by 10-15 mins and see how we go. Been at 8:45 for 3 mornings now. I will try with the AP, never been one to rock or sling. My back is weak and not in a good position to go for a walk with other kiddies...I can always put him down for the same amount of time though or is being in his cot not a good idea?

Going away this week so everything is probably going to go out the window  and I will have to start all over again when we get back (first holiday).

Thanks again.

[Papaya]

Sounds like today went really well - fingers crossed for a later WU tomorrow. Being in the cot for a catnap is fine! He just might be a bit upset if you wake him after a short nap, whereas if I was out my LO always roused a little easier and was then distracted by wherever we were.