Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 6

[RitaBobcat]

I'm desperate for some help please. I knew the transition is going to be a tough one but I was still not prepared.
My 17 month old son can have a good A time until 11:30 but then will only sleep for 45 min before waking up hysterical. He clearly wants to continue sleeping but nothing can calm him down at that point. This only happens on 1 nap days and he's never been like this before. I tried to revert to 2 naps and he'll sleep for an hour in the morning and then refuse the afternoon nap so his A time lasts from 11:30 until bed which is way too long or he ends up having a late catnap at 4:30. This constant changing from day to day is also causing NW and EW. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I can't even post a routine since it's been all over the place. He now wakes up around 6 (used to be 7 ) and although I think of bedtime as 7, I've been putting him down a little earlier since he's not sleeping well during the day...

[HPM1]

Hi RitaBobcat,

I don't really have any advice but just wanted to offer my support  I posted this in 'Sleeping for Toddlers' 

NW with almost 1year old

It sounds similar to what you're going through  (although our LO isn't one for a few  days) and we're struggling a bit with the NW and PM nap refusal.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.   Tonight was  awesome.....ly hideous. He had no PM Nap so I put him down at 6pm instead  of 7pm and he went down fine but he woke at 2:30am and it took us 1.5hr to settle him.

[RitaBobcat]

Thanks for your support HPM1. Since I posted, he's been all over the place. Cat naps, short AM/long PM, long AM/short PM, no PM nap, etc. I don't know what the pattern is now and how to correct it. I'm kind of hoping part of it is an early 18 month regression (which obviously isn't your problem yet) and it'll correct itself eventually.

But if anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it

[Scottishmummy]

Need to join this thread for some support too...

RitaBobcat- my son is a bit younger than yours (13.5mo) but we're in a similar situation...waking early from his nap,totally miserable with it & then getting OT later. On those days I APOP a cn (15-30mjns depending on length of 1st nap) in buggy which helps him get to BT but we're now getting very EW (5am) which I think is either due to sleeping late afternoon; OT from having 1hr daytime sleep or less (he needs 1.5-2hrs in day) or due to starting 1st nap too early, which we sometimes have to do to compensate for EW.

I thought we were doing well with the 2-1 but I now feel like I've messed up & fallen at the last hurdle.  Until a couple of weeks ago DS's day looked like this:

Wu: around 6am (this is fine as DH & I both have to get up then for work)
Nap: 11am for 1.5-2hrs
4pm- walk in buggy- if he slept cn capped at 15min
BT: 7pm if had 2naps; 6.30 if only 1.

I think it went wrong when DS stopped falling asleep for the 4pm cn. At first he would sleep 11.15-12 hrs on 1 nap days but then he started only sleeping 11hrs & waking at 5.30... I started trying to push his bedtime back to 7 but at same time my mum & his nursery (who he's with 2 days each now I'm back at work) started putting him down for his nap at 10.30. I think this has caused OT to build up to point we're getting short naps & EW.  So far I've tried:

trying to persuade him to go back to sleep at 5- no luck at all
setting bedtime at 7- he just wakes up earlier & earlier
AP-ing a 9.30 morning cn - he just totally refuses pm nap then only sleeps for 30-40 mins
AP-ing a late afternoon cn- we just get EW
Setting nap at 11am- very short OT nap (35mins) & waking screaming         


The last 3 days he's had less than an hr daytime sleep & only 10hrs at night & he & DH & I are exhausted.  I think he is teething too as he's dribbling lots although I can't see any teeth. I think there's also a WW approaching too.

Today I'm trying a nap after 5hrs A time (started at 10.10) having given him Calpol & really hoping he has a long one & can start catching up on some much needed sleep. If so we'll then start pushing it later again.

Sorry for long post- just needed to offload!

[Scottishmummy]

Complete disaster of a day:

Wu 5.10am
S: 10.10-11.10 -wouldn't re-settle
Only ate half of lunch before started crying, screaming inconsolably from tiredness by 12.30
S: 12.45-13.15 in buggy (taken out to try to calm him down & he just fell asleep)
Starting to fall asleep again at 4pm, I decided to try to keep him awake and do EBT to try to combat EW. Big mistake. Huge.
Screaming with tiredness by 4.30, wouldn't eat his meal
In bed at 5pm

Fully expecting him wide awake & hungry in about an hour then refusing sleep until late evening.  Either that or awake and ready for the day at 4am tomorrow :-(

[yujai]

Update on my end.  We finally switched our almost 16 months old to 1 nap over the weekend.  Result is encouraging!

He refused to nap on Sat morning, so I made up my mind and let him stay awake til noon.  Napped over 2 hours, then stay up til bedtime no problem.  Unfortunately he was awake on and off from 3:30-7am.  We were both dying on Sunday and he only napped 1.5 hours that afternoon, so we had put him to bed around 7:30 and the AMAZING, LEGENDARY 11-12 hours night sleep HAPPENED! He slept til 7:15am next day! Woohoo!

Saturday
Woke at 6:40 am, napped at 12:15, woke at 2:30, bedtime asleep around 8pm (Multiple wakings from 3:30-7am)

Sunday
woke at 7:00 am, napped at 12:00, woke at 1:30, bedtime asleep at 7:30

Monday
woke at 7:15 am, napped at 12:35, woke once around 1 hour mark, then rocked back to sleep til 3pm (had to wake him), bedtime asleep before 8pm (Spent 30 min to settle to sleep)

Tuesday
woke at 6:30am, napped at 12:10, sleep til 2:30 (had to wake him again), will try to bedtime at 7:30pm

Now I have a question, should I wake him from nap if he slept pass 3pm?  It seems to be more difficult for him to settle for bedtime if he slept pass a certain time.

[Green007]

Hey. I'm new to posting in here. I see a lot of similar issues happening to others...make me feel a bit better. My DD is 15 months. Switched to one nap at 11-12 months. Was up to a 5h20 min A time in AM and a 4.5A after nap. She'd sleep 1.5-2 hours. Now all of a sudden since we started her at her dayhome she was only napping 1h15 mins. She was sick but I bumped her A time up...made a difference some days but then others it did not. She's up to a 6h A now and back to 1h05 min naps. So I don't even know how to tackle this? Go back to 5h20 A time (in hopes it's just the sickness and/or transition...push a bit to 5h30 A or stay at the 6h A and hope she transitions? Ugh. This is never ending!

[chirojaz]

Hi, I'm new to posting to this topic but could use some help since I just started the 2-1 transition with my son.
Today is day 2 of transitioning my nearly 16month DS to one nap.  I just can't figure out the timing to get him to take a good nap.  Yesterday looked like this.....
woke: 7:45
Nap: 12:30
up at:1:30, I tried rocking him back to sleep and get him to sleep from 2-2:20 but as soon as I put him in his crib he woke.
Bed:7:00, fell asleep right away, no night wakes.
Today...
woke:6:40
nap: 12:30
up: 1:35, stirred around but slept until 1:50.  I tried to rock him again and he was not having it, did not want to go back to sleep. 

Is it possible that he needs more than 6 hours between the time he wakes up and his one nap of the day?  It boggles me because it seems like a long time between right off the bat.  His EASY prior to switching looked like this....
woke up:6:30/7
nap:10:30 for 30-40 min (I would wake him after no more than 40 min, sometimes he would fight the am nap and I would end up rocking him to sleep).
nap: 3:30-4:30or 5pm
Bed: 7:30/8pm

[ladymugg]

Hi there

The last few days my nearly 13mo little girl has been only having short morning and afternoon sleeps (yesterday wouldn't go down for her afternoon nap at all).

Her BT and WU are the same... but this is her EASY:

6/6.30 WU and milk drink
7.30/8 am breakfast
9.30 am morning snack
10 am sleep
Used to wake at 11.30 but now it is 11 am!
12 pm lunch
2.30 pm snack
3 pm sleep
Last few days has slept for 30 minutes... usually has been an hour or so
5 pm dinner
6.15 pm milk drink, bath, teeth, story
Bed at 6.35/6.40pm

I have read the thread about 2 to 1 sleep transition and I'm not quite sure where this fits in or if I am misreading the signs.  She definitely has tired signs, yawning, eyes rubbing etc before her nap so IS tired, but should I be pushing her morning sleep out?  It has always been her morning sleep that has been the longest one since we have been on two naps a day. 

Any advice/thoughts/help?  I have read all the pages relating to this just want to be sure what to do.    Thanks in advance.

[ginger428]

Ladymugg, our schedules are almost identical except for our BT has been closer to 7:15/7:30 as my DS has been taking his pm nap a little later around 3:30 and needs at least a 3-3.5 A before bed. Our naps have usually been short 30-50 min until recently when they started being around 1hr10min.

From some others' chatter here going through 2-1, you'll probably want to start moving your am nap by 10-15 min every 3 days or so.  Some try 30 min every 3 days... I guess it depends on your baby. My DS is 12m7d, and we started this transition about 2 months ago, then returned to 2 naps this past week.  Now he's resisting the pm nap quite insistently again. I'm starting a thread here about the 2-1 for a 12 mo... feel free to jump in as like I said, our schedules are almost identical.

As for us, I'm inclined to jump by 30 min every few days. I kept thinking lately though that I might need to make his am shorter and bring up pm.  I'm just not sure, either, as I've also read the 2-1 help threads. DS has been OT for so long that it's muddled things a bit.  Only recently, like last 2 nights, has he slept decently at night.

Sorry this isn't as helpful...

Hope to see you on the thread. 

[ladymugg]

Hi there
I meant to come up and update my post days ago (woops) and also I thought I set up notify on this thread, looks like that didn't work!

Anyway I had concluded that we were getting early WU of around 5.30 am (I never get her up before 6am, unless she is very upset) as that had  been going on (off and on) for a few days.  So Monday I started pushing that nap out to 10.15 and today (Thursday) am now up to 10.30.  Will continue on until we get a 12.30/1pm lunch as her sleeps have increased to well over 2 hours doing this.

Amazing!

Anyway question - yesterday I got a 2.5hr sleep in the morning and then she was back in bed 3.15 pm ish until 4.45.  Considered waking her, maybe I should have as she still was waking at 5.30 am this morning.  4 hours total sleep seems like a lot, although she went to bed last night with no problems and slept 11 hours still. 

I'm just about to put her down for her afternoon sleep now, should I keep that to a 45 minute cat nap since this mornings nap was also 2+ hours?

Thanks
Nic

PS: Ginger your info was helpful - thanks - I guess I had already drawn my own conclusion in the interim... I guess great minds think alike eh?

[ladymugg]

Also should I keep BT at 6.40pm, she seems to be tired and wants it then, no problems going to sleep either. (?)

Maybe if I shorten that afternoon nap that might help that 5.30 am waking?  Ideally looking for 6-6.30am once again.

[ginger428]

I agree, I bet the long daytime sleep is shortening her nighttime sleep. So yes, I would cap her pm nap but it's all trial and error, isn't it? Hope it works for you!!

About BT, same concept... since she's sleeping more in the day, her total wake time has decreased leading to UT? That's what I"m thinking so maybe concurrently push BT to 6:55ish or so and also cap pm nap? But that could be too much.  Sorry, I'm new to all this so I"m not the most reliable source tbh! 

[ladymugg]

Thanks! I was going to cap that nap but she woke up anyway l but I'll wake her in future if it keep going.

Still 5.35am wake up today

[ginger428]

5:10 here, but in/out since 4:00. 
Ds is ill though and teething, so it could've been discomfort.
We're back to 2 naps with only 3.3 A times. Again, probably due to illness and broken/unsettled nights, although he hasn't needed me.
We're also back to 6:30 BT, as he's waking early and therefore taking naps earlier.  He doesn't seem to tack on sleep with a EBT. Darn! Haha.

Are you still at the 10:30 nap even with an EW?

Oh and remember it takes a couple of days to adjust. So maybe tomorrow or day after she'll be up
Later.