March/April Thread #3

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

Richelle, you asked about the word NO.

Well, I *do* say no, but I really try and limit it.  I don't use it an everyday response to Nathan doing something I'd rather he didn't.  If I want to get attention if he was going for something, I'm more inclined to say "uh uh", give a quick explanation why not and then redirect.  I would say no for an instant response for safety type stuff. 

For example, today he was climbing up the handles of the drawers in the kitchen (it's something new he's discovered  :roll: ).  Now while in itself it actually doesn't bother me, it is a little dodgy and also the handles might break off.  So instead of saying, "no, get down now", I say "ah Nathan, I'd like you to climb down please, I know it's fun to climb up there, but those handles might break".  If he doesn't climb down I'll go and help him down (as in reclimb down, not yank him outta there).  Then when I see that's not working, I'll say again in a non-condescending way "why is it not a good idea to climb up there?" and he'll say "because it might break" (obviously this has been work in progress because he can now talk in sentances and fully understand my request).  If he continues to climb, I say in a fun voice "how about you take your stool into the lounge and use it to climb on the couches?" and he'll often at that point see the fun in that and the fact that I haven't risen to the bait.  I've been calm, he's remained calm rather than it turn into a battles of wills and big scream fest - it is this type of thing that WILL turn into a tantrum if handled in an authoritarian way.  My life is so much easier taking this route, sure it's more words, but the mental energy used is less than dealing with it in a disciplinarian way ie. NO, remove, time out, screaming etc etc.  And the outcome is exactly the same, except this way he's less likely to redo it for a *reaction* from me, but because it's fun and once the fun's over, it's over.  And we both have gone about our day in a pleasant way rather than feeling grumpy that it all happened.

When he was younger (maybe 18mths and able to say one word at a time) and would drive his cars and things on the walls (which I dont' seem to have an *issue* with these days) I'd explain that cars were for driving on the floor.  Then if he redid it, I'd ask "where are cars meant to be driven?" and he'd either say floor or just put them on the floor.  Now all of this was done in a non-threatening or non-warning type of way, but it helps him be responsible for what he's doing and helping to problem solve rather than me just saying "no".

Of course that is all my ideal and it is like that for the majority of the time, but I am still stuggling, but the more and more I see the positive outcome of this style it helps keep me focused.  I have no idea if this is Unconditional Parenting, because I've still used my power to some degree.  Thoughts Judy?

[Richelle]

Wow, thanks Nikki.  Nathan is REALLY LUCKY ( and Danielle obviously) to have you.  The F/D BBQ I mentioned ealier with the 14 (ahemm correct 18 month old ) ended not too long ago, FOR THE LOVE OF PETER!  I say I felt very sorry for the little lass, she was a sweetheart but was never told it, IFYKWIM.

They came in while I was changing Sophie so could hear and not see them and the first thing I heard was a gruff, 'NO MILLY BE NICE FOR ONCE!", I thought maybe she had, actually... I can't even begin to think what I thought she was into to.  Anyway, she had walked in and gone to the water cooler and turned that tap on, bless her.  When we were finally eating, they kept calling her a brat  :shock:  :shock: , she was just interested in the back garden???  When the mom said to me that she was a brat for the 50th time I finally had had enough and I scooped her up, gave her a hug and said 'I don't think she is a brat I think she is a sweetheart', which she honestly was and soooo adorable!

I had read a thread about independent play on the activity board that Nikki directed us to re. independent play and it really struck a choard with me re: seperation anxiety.  Sophie is suffering seperation anxiety right now and I can't imagine leaving her to whine and cry on her own so I play with her.  I figure, who better to play with her than mommy and what the heck am I here for?  Therefore I tink Sophie is adjusting well to learning where I am/she is/daddy is ect...  This woman at this F/D BBQ says to me, you need to ignore her, she'll get it, she said; 'I have had to step over Milly since she was 8 months old in order to have some time for myself. :shock:

Basically all this winbagging has basically made me more committed to finding a non-utalitarian/disciplinary tool to help Sophie grow into a failry well-balanced kid! 

Sooo long, I hope the next babe is a bit easier...fat chance right!! :wink:

[mickymuscles]

hi girls!

I just had to come on for a quick brag session  :oops:   Grandpa came to visit today and bought Jack his first car......

[Richelle]

Micky - that is soooo adorable!  What a dreamboat!

[kate585]

Too cute!      He's ready to go cruisin' for chicks!

[Richelle]

Jeez, I feel like such a geek... I am waiting in the chat for someone to show up!!

Is anyone coming?  Hope I have the right time!!

[Olivia's Mommy]

Wow...what a weekend this has been, but more on that later:

KATE--I agree that somehow shopping is harder this year in between naps, feeding, usual routine, etc. of LOs. I can imagine it only gets harder with more. (Am I right Judy?)

NAOMI--sorry you've had a difficult weekend, hope your week is better.

RICHELLE--people who talk to their kids that way make me so mad. I just want to say to them, "Maybe if you didn't call him/her a 'brat' he/she wouldn't act like one" (not that this little one was, but if she keeps being treated like that, it won't be long!) I'm glad you were there to give her an extra squeeze and some encouraging words.

MICKY--that picture is too cute! What a little heartbreaker!

So, we've had the marathon weekend! Yesterday went to see Santa at DHs workplace. Liv did great (will post pictures later), then we did a little shopping, out to eat, then drove around and looked at Christmas lights. This morning, tried to make it to church, and by the time we were out the door we realized we'd only make it for the last 20 minutes...so we drove around and killed time before we were supposed to meet friends (from out of town) for lunch. Then home for a quick nap and back out to a Christmas party. Now we're home and DH is trying to put Liv to bed, but she's had a pretty ragged couple of days, so she's way off!!

Sorry to say, I won't make the chat tonight (I would still like to make one sometime...maybe in the new year!) I'm beat, so I'm off to cuddle with DH for a bit (even though we've been together for the last 2 days, I feel like I haven't really seen him YKWIM?), then probably go to bed. Good night all!

[M&M'sMom]

OKay this was my plan, to leave chat early and come and wwrite you a nice note for when you come back....

I am sorry about the "missing in action" routine I pulled. But had some MIL,SIL,teething,me sick and Christmas issues around the Thomas household.

Thanks so much Kate,Roz,Michelle, Micky,and Ankie for the awesome cards and pics.

I really am going to reply, but it just may be a surprize when okay.

I hope there are some great nappers, and night sleepers for Christmas, as well as no teeth or colds. ( I guess this could sort of be my Christmas wish list heh)...

Here is a little something a friend (with identical boys 4 days older than my girls + a 2 yr old dd) sent me.. enjoy:

Dear Santa,
I've been a good mom all year. I've fed, cleaned and cuddled my children on demand, visited the doctor's office more than my doctor, sold sixty-two cases of candy bars to raise money to plant a shade tree on the school playground.
 
I was hoping you could spread my list out over several Christmases, since I had to write this letter with my son's red crayon, on the back of a receipt in the laundry room between cycles, and who knows when I'll find anymore free time in the next 18 years.
 
Here are my Christmas wishes:

I'd like a pair of legs that don't ache (in any color, except purple, which I already have) and arms that don't hurt or flap in the breeze; but are strong enough to pull my screaming child out of the candy aisle in the grocery store. I'd also like a waist, since I lost mine somewhere
in the seventh month of my last pregnancy. If you're hauling big ticket items this year I'd like fingerprint resistant windows and a radio that only plays adult music; a television that doesn't broadcast any programs containing talking animals; and a refrigerator with a secret compartment
behind the crisper where I can hide to talk on the phone. On the practical side, I could use a talking doll that says, "Yes, Mommy" to boost my parental confidence, along with two kids who don't fight and three pairs of jeans that will zip all the way up without the use of power tools. I could also use a recording of Tibetan monks chanting "Don't eat in the living room" and "Take your hands off your brother,"
because my voice seems to be just out of my children's hearing range and can only be heard by the dog.

If it's too late to find any of these products, I'd settle for enough time to brush my teeth and comb my hair in the same morning, or the luxury of eating food warmer than room temperature without it being served in a Styrofoam container. If you don't mind, I could also use a
few Christmas miracles to brighten the holiday season. Would it be too much trouble to declare ketchup a vegetable? It will clear my conscience immensely. It would be helpful if you could coerce my children to help
around the house without demanding payment as if they were the bosses of an organized crime family.

Well, Santa, the buzzer on the dryer is ringing and my son saw my feet under the laundry room door. I think he wants his crayon back. Have a safe trip and remember to leave your wet boots by the door and come in and dry off so you don't catch cold. Help yourself to cookies on the
table but don't eat too many or leave crumbs on the carpet.

Yours Always, MOM...!
P.S. One more thing...you can cancel all my requests if you can keep my children young enough to believe in Santa.

[Judy]

Oh my goodness Richelle - that poor child!!  Her mother sounds awful.  Sad thing is I bet her mom has no idea she comes across so harsh - people just don't seem to consider children as PEOPLE. 

Nikki - I think your approach is great!   I think Unconditional Parenting is all about that.  Talking and talking and talking AND listening - listen more than you talk (as it should always be with whomever we relate to I guess eh?)  So I'll shut up now... hee hee just kidding - fat chance on that one ladies!!   So the idea of finding common preference is finding something else that the child would like as well or better and that you would like -like taking his stool to the lounge and climbing on the couches.  Or going off and doing something you both like together if time and opportunity permits.  And as you suggest Nikki, explaining why you don't want them to do something.  Climbing on the drawers could break the drawers and probably no one in the house would mind.  My girls jump (I've probably said this already) from the coffee table to the couch.  Well none of us here mind that happening to our couch (it belongs to all of us so we must all agree how it's used) since it's 15yrs old and still holding itself up well (with a cover of course).  But they are asked not to just jump up and down on the couch b/c it's easy to get bounced off and they could easily break an arm or knock their head on the table.  But a single jump from table to couch seems harmless to me.  But we discussed it and decided together whether this was ok with all of us. AND I explain that most other people don't like their couches to be used that way.

I think UP is a lot about not reacting but working through with children.  It's hard to not react.  When I am really tired I'm really off my game and the girls know that things are 'off' then they're off - which feeds me, which feeds them, which feeds me...  you get the picture...  This is actually where I gave in more on tv... ok everyone to the king size bed - I'll turn on the tv and sleep while you all watch!   I figured tv was better than me being miserable to them (I think I could have used this strategy this morning now that I think of it).  So Zoe dumps a cup of milk on the living room carpet.  Try not to react, calm, breathe, BREATHE!! and figure out why.  Think about it, talk to her, ask her.  Ask her if she'll help clean it up, suggest she clean it up while I help her.  Find out why she felt she had to do this (IF she knows and can express it) and explain better options for next time.  Many times I can remain calm.  Sometimes I still huff and give a "what did you do that for?!" crank.  A lot of times it's just being over tired and needing more control. In this instance she'd already said the milk was old (was in the fridge from the morning and she didn't like that the cup was cold) and we told her it was fine.  SHE said it wasn't fine, it was her milk and she was annoyed that we wouldn't listen to her.  Maybe instead of saying "it's fine" we could have worked through what she thought we should do and what we thought.  If we'd have yelled, time out etc.  she would have cried, screamed, kicked the wall and been hurt and sad that we were mad at her.  AND I still would have had to clean it up.  As it was she and I cleaned together, she felt safe and loved and agreed that maybe there were better options.  Done quicker, point made and we move one.  Did she ever do it again. Yeah - with other stuff.  But timeout wouldn't have changed that either in fact this type of thing is happening much less now.  Time outs changed nothing but this soft loving approach does help.  She's started it again a bit - I think just to test and see if we still won't get mad.  Although see today daddy put her in her room for dumping milk and cereal on the table. I asked him why he did that and he said he was tired and couldn't think anything else through.  Yeah - I understand.  Don't beat ourselves up.  Move on.  We'll get another chance to work through that type of situation again soon

In fact I'm off to bed now without completely catching up here.  Too tired and it was such an off day for all of us at least for half the day that I just want it to be done with

[Judy]

Awesome picture Micky!!!!!!!!!! 

[Taylor's Mommy]

Hi Girls,

So wasn't it me that asked for chat to be at 7pm tonight and I didn't even show up?!?!  So sorry.  We got stuck at a christmas cookie party and by the time I got home and fed T, I popped in but the girls had left exactly 12 minutes earlier!   

Anyhoo...THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT NAPS VS. BEDTIME.  They have been very helpful and have helped me come to a conclusion...I will mess up the mornign nap on the days I have stuff to do instead of the afternoon nap because I think Nikki brought up a great point.  If am nap goes awry, then you can always get back on track with the afternoon nap....AND...since the afternoon nap is the one they end up keeping into toddlerhood, I will try to keep that one "sacred".  Thanks again!  So last night and tonight though we had 2 parties to go to, so of course bedtimes were messed up...so I'm sure we will be getting a few wakings.  Kinda sad that I feel I owe it to myself to get out to these parties and see friends and family after spending the last 8 months protecting her schedule.  SO I do something for myself and then get paid back with middle of the night wakings!   :?  :roll:   Oh well, such is life!

Judy and Nikki, I need to copy and paste your dialogue going back and forth because right now to be honest I can't keep up with it all, but I know down the road it would be sooooo helpful.  Geez, maybe I will try and work on that.

Ankie-So Sorry about the continued sleep troubles but with both of you on board I know you will lick it.  Good luck and know we are all rooting for you guys.  Way to go DH as well!  And it was my DH that when armed with some information used it against me too!   :lol:  :roll:

Jody-loved the Christmas letter.  So cute and soooo true eh?

I got cards from Bec, Macaire, and Karen this weekend.  Thanks so much!My mantle is full with so many beautiful babies!

Micky-when I saw Jack I just had to say "ahhhhh".  he is too cute.  So looks like his casts are off now right?

Nancy-wow busy weekend.  Time to slow down a little now and take some time for yourself tomorrow.

Hannah and Kate and anyone else who mentioned about fitting things in, you all know how I'm dealing/or not dealing with getting stuff done with this lo!  I think everyone is getting their gifts in bags this year!

Good night all

[Taylor's Mommy]

Forgot to say I also got Cathy and carter's card!

And Hannah-I wanted to say sooooo sorry.  It dawned on me the other day that I forgot to do the Pu/Pd sheet.  I am so sorry that is really not like me.  Do you still need something because I can do it?
Really sorry.   

[FrasersMum]

Hi girls

I just wanted to share a cute little story....

DH was just running the vacuum cleaner around the house and Fraser completed a full lap of the house, following the vacuum around the whole way  :lol:  Not touching, just shadowing.

They have just finished and DH has said "well done Fraser, I think we did a good job"  :lol: 

I just thought that was pretty cute!

That's all for now, not talking about sleep here for the time being. 
Sorry I couldn't hang around in the chat - had an urgent work matter.
3 cards today "HOORAY!!" - thanks Michelle, Ankie and Bec.
Finally sent my cards out today - big apologies to all OS as they will not make it in time for Christmas. 

OK, bye for now
Jo

[becca24]

Jo - That is so cute !! I needed you at the chat today to explain what spag bol was. You know how ocker I am - I can't help myself.

[Nikki~Nathan&Danielle]

G'day, who had a problem with spag bol?  Crikey Mate!