Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

[Kiwi_one]

Hi Tink! Looks like we're in the middle of the 3-2 transition as well so I've headed over for advice and commiseration

We've been working on stretching A times for a while as bedtime suddenly became a big issue with loads of night wakings. It settled down for a short while but bedtime is a struggle again now so I'm thinking maybe we need to push on with dropping the CN. Her As at the moment are 2:30, then 2:15/2:20, then 2/2:15. The last A time is a total mystery to me. She can seem ready for bed at 50 minutes, at 1:10, 1:20.... (a couple of months ago her last A was 1hr after a 1hr catnap) I've not capped naps much so she's currently doing one 2hr, one 1.5hr, and a 45min CN.

Having read some of the sample routines, it looks as though we could just about go cold turkey but I would be afraid she wouldn't know it was bedtime? (I was always afraid of this with DD1 but we transitioned gradually and it was never an issue) I imagine the prevailing wisdom would be to cut the long nap to 1.5hrs and the CN to 30min and see how we go from there. I just wish there was a quick fix because the bedtime struggles are getting really hard. DH even APOPed today and held her to sleep; I don't know that I've ever known him to APOP before.

[TB9]

Its tough to know what to do sometimes isnt it    With dd1 I could really push her As and she would adjust quickly...dd2 I have to go more slowly.  She crashed after not taking the cn 2 days last week, and I have her As at 2hr20min (will give a 2hr nap), 2hr20min (but then only a 45min nap here!) 2hr15min (another 45min nap) and then 2hr.  Today for nap 2 she stirred at 40min then went back to sleep, so hopefully she getsa good nap in now...I suspect she will still need her cn today, but I dont have the guts to cut it shorter than 45min so I will probably just let her have a later bedtime until she drops the cn. 

The days that she refused her cn last week I obviously had to put her to bed early, she was so pooped that even though she woke early in the night it was easy to settle her back to sleep, so I think if you do drop it cold turkey then Z will be tired enough to settle back to sleep

C also seems ready for bed at 1hr, 1hr20min, 1hr30min after her cn.  Turns out she usually want food...she takes 10oz in the hour before bed then once she gets the whole bottle into her tummy I put her to bed and it can take 20min or so for her to settle to sleep.  I would love to have bt earlier than 2hrs after the cn, but I just cant get her down any earlier.

[Kiwi_one]

It's definitely not a food thing here. She usually drinks very little of her bottle in the last A time, try as I might. She eats well early in the day -- 7.5oz bottles and solids during her first two A times -- but after that her enthusiasm wanes. She's STTN the last two nights so I don't think she can be too hungry at bedtime.

I tried shortening her naps today. We did 2hr30min A -> 1.5hr nap, 2hr10min A -> 1.5hr nap, 2hr5min A -> 30min nap, and tried for bedtime when she was eye-rubbing at 1hr A. She fussed for ten minutes before calling me in and then would settle with the dummy for 10-15 minutes before waking up again. Even so, just wanting a few replugs and being fast asleep within 40 minutes of going to bed is a vast improvement on what we've had lately! So maybe she has been getting too much day sleep.

I had no idea how easy I had it with DD1! Her A times were very exacting but completely predictable. It didn't matter if she'd had a 20min CN or 45min, she'd have the same next A time and every time she was showing signs of being UT, an extra 15 minutes would sort it out. Textbook babies are a mystery to me

[baabaa]

Hi mamas,  I wonder if I messed up the 3-2 transition.  My 6.5-month-old began fighting the CN *sometimes* at about 2 weeks ago. When he fought it but napped for 45 minutes, invariably bed time was a mess.  (He usually would go to sleep very easily on his own at bedtime...naps are another matter.)  So....I went cold turkey on the CN.  This immediately extended the 2 other naps--1.5 and a record-breaking 2 hours.  WOW! I thought we'd hit the jackpot.  I mean, naps have been the bane of my existence for four months.  But... the EW began...creeping up 10-15 minutes til we're now at 5 AM. And today we're back to the crap-naps. There have been extenuating circumstances (visitors, diaper leaking, starting solids).  I just wonder:  could this all have to do with cutting the CN cold turkey?  He is definitely OOT by bedtime, so I've moved that up now to 6:30.  Any suggestions?

[TB9]

She refused her cn again yesterday   So she had 2hr20min A before both naps, which got a 1hr50min nap and a 1hr30min nap. She went down easily for bed after 3hr15min A, and just woke for food at 10:30pm because she couldnt get her normal amount of food in before bed.  I cant believe she had no ot wakeups lastnight!  She is pooped today though, I had to put her down 15min early for her am nap

I dont think I can cut her naps to 1.5hrs to keep the cn, I have a feeling that she would just end up refusing the cn anyway    One thing I learned with dd1 was to never wake a sleeping spirited!

Baabaa - What are his A times at?  I found with dd1s nap dropping I needed to offer the nap, and then let her stay up later if she did nap.  Eventually she dropped it on her own.  Is it possible he has teeth cutting through?  Dd1 always got ot while teething and I had to cut her a times back and offer the extra nap.

[Kiwi_one]

One thing I learned with dd1 was to never wake a sleeping spirited!

It seems even within the temperament they're all different. My spirited was my most flexible by far and the least likely to get OT, as long as I stuck to her A times.

Zelie settled by herself at BT but woke a number of times through the night. We always either have to help her get to sleep at bedtime or help her get back to sleep later. Just don't seem to be able to find the balance! But perhaps that'll come when the catnap's gone. Here's hoping I'm encouraged by the few STTNs we've had lately too. Maybe that's not too far away either.

[TB9]

Refused cn again today so another early bedtime!  Its been forever since dd slept through completely...she's so big, she's been taking 36-42oz in a day and that still doesnt get her through the night   Part of our problem with the pm nap is that she always wants to eat every 3hrs in the pm so ends up waking hungry (and top up feeds are a big no-no for her).  We've started on solids this week so hopefully once she gets a good solid and bottle feed in every A time her pm nap will improve...

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Reassuring to see I'm finding the same people in the same places at the same time on this forum!  Come here looking for some 3-2 support and immediately see two familiar faces

I think we're heading into 3-2 messes.  We were actually getting somewhere with jack's routine and gradually upping A times but we're hitting cat nap resistance which is giving some very late cat naps,  long days and short nights which is messing everything up again.  If we have a late wake up and 2 good naps we can easily go without a cat nap but then the next few day will start early and we get into a bit of a mess. It doesn't help that he often has a feed around 5.30/6 am which he now won't always settle after. 

We haven't started solids yet either and I'm sure hunger is playing a part.  He seems to be snacking a bit - or I'm not structuring his feeds right.  We've just moved onto bottles so I guess we're still feeling our way a bit.

Anyway, here's to 2 naps coming soon!  I hate the cat nap and will be very glad to see it go!

[TB9]

I hate the cn at this point too, thats why I dont even try to AP it anymore!

[TB9]

Dd is refusing the cn pretty much every day, but I cant seem to get her a right so she takes more than 45min-1hr nap in the pm 

I feel like shes already hot herself on long am short pm!  Going to have to join the 2-1 support thread, lol.

[Layla]

Hey guys, mind if i join? I know we're on the youngish side but it looks like we're dropping the catnap too. I am doing set naps 9 and 1  and so far the am nap has been 1.5 and pm 2-2.5hrs, which means bedtime is 3hrs later. I am not sure when to feed though and before the cn, i would do E at 3.5 hrs and a top up just after cn and final feed before bed but with the new routine she is too tired to have full feed! I have to go back to tickling her toes lol. The cn started getting harder to achieve and i had to BF her to sleep so decided to push the A times. Yesterday she had 1.5 pm nap so i forced the cn but she woke more times at night. I just hope i am not making a mistake because i would hate to get her overtired and start waking earlier and earlier or shorten her naps. She is good with morning awake time at 3 hrs but before bed struggling a little. We manage by doing a longer windown.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Hi layla.  Sounds like your LO is doing well on 2 naps.  We're almost there - on about 2 hrs 45 A time at the moment and 3 hrs before bed which is good when naps are good but if we get a short nap or an early start then it's too long til bedtime but hard to fit in even a short cat nap.  We're treating his 6/6.30 am feed as a night feed at the moment and he's getting a lie in which is helping when he does actually go back to sleep. We've had some long nws on the days he does catnap so that's my incentive to push his A times!  Any short naps we get are generally UT but he's teething and whingey atm so it's always tempting to put him down when he seems tired and not push him those extra 10 minutes to get a good nap!

How's everyone else getting on?

[TB9]

Hi Layla!

We are having some issues with DDs Es, its very frustrating!  I think her pm nap is on the short side because she wakes up hungry, but she also wont take a top up before her pm nap...not much I can do except wait it out until she can go longer...

She hasnt had a cn in a long time, so I have to push her As no matter how cranky she is   I hate feeling like im pushing her, but she really leaves me no choice since she wont cn anymore!  She is also having trouble with her teeth, so im sure that adds to the crankiness during her As.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

We're getting the same,  tink, in terms of having to push A times and teeth adding to grouchiness. He's probably getting tired as the day goes on as well and then the teething bothers him more. By the end of the day he's just frantically biting anything within reach! In fact I've just caught him biting the corner of the rug he's on and it's early morning here!  Goodness knows what he'll be like by the end of the day....

[Layla]

Yes, I am also finding that with adding A times, mine is more cranky than usual and despite the great naps, mine is just so tired!!! Today for example, J woke at 6.30am but by 8am she was really cranky. I had to keep her up until 9am anyways (school drop off) and she started falling asleep on the way home in the car. So I quickly put her in her cot when we got home and she slept from 8:50-11am (I woke her up because I was scared she wouldn't sleep later!) and then we went for a walk and about 1.5hrs into A time, she started sucking her thumb and wanted to go to sleep?! I kept pulling her thumb out and rushed home and tried to keep her amused and put her down 2hrs A time, thinking she will sleep but she was wide awake so I got her out and put her down at 2.5hrs A time (which is where we are at in the pm at the moment). She slept another 2 hrs and we had 3 hrs before bed so she went to sleep at 6ish. She wasn't falling asleep at the breast today so I am hoping she had a good feed. Today I fed her before bath and then an hour later (just before bedtime). I know she's doing really well with naps but I can't help think something may go wrong... do they temporarily increase total amount of sleep during the transition period or is she up at night and making up for it during the day

Is this transition going to be like the 2-1, where they need a catch up cn every couple of days or so before they are comfortable with the new A times? DD1 didn't give up her CN until 9 months and DD2 at 8 months so with J not even being 5 months, I hope its not too early