Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #18

[*Kara*]

LOL!  Most nights are about 11-11.5 hrs.  Last night was a bit short though at 10 hrs 45mins... and she was up until 745pm tonight after that monster nap... DH works early so she will be up by 6am... ugh.

[ZacsMumme]

Im just popping back on re naps vs nights for total seep and I'm not sure it works with a good night meaning a short nap is all they need unless your LO is LSN...maybe she has been all along Melissa. I know now we are on one nap we get good 12 hour nights, we also get a constant 3 hr nap or at east 2.5. Zac is getting more sleep than ever before rather than the ther way around and he is pretty LSN.

There are two ways I have seen people do the 2-1 so far while we went through it....cold turkey with some CN thrown in...kind of like Kara you are doing and gradually like we did. I think if you go for it cold turkey you have to stck with it come hell or high water for a good 3 weeks to get their bodes used to it if they aren't quite there. I suspect A was just on the cusp so she is adjusting well. Melissa I truly believe you will get a longer nap, it just may take longer for her to adjust with the jump IYKWIM.

[clairebear79]

Ladies - Sara made some really good points there.  Cold turkey is not easy (as we found out & we only lasted 2 weeks before I caved in).  If you can stick it out for a good 3/4 weeks no matter how awful the naps get or how OT they get then you should come out the other side. 

Sara - wanted to ask specifically for your thoughts on this:
we are going with gradually pushing out O's AM A time (& sticking with it) & started with 4hrs & then stretched to 4h 15.  After a couple of wonky days I decided I need to stick with it rather than quit.  So yesterday we did 4hrs A (as he was super tired from the wonky days) and it went:

Wake: 5am
Nap:  9 - 11am  (I woke him at 2hrs to make sure I could get a CN)
CN:   3.40 - 4pm (I PD at 3.10pm clearly too early as took ages to settle.  Woke him at 4pm & was aiming for 6.30pm BT)
BT:  6.55pm      (PD at 6.30 but he clearly needs more A than 2.5hrs after a 20min nap nowadays)

Today so far:
Wake: 6.45am   (hurrah - he had a catch up night)
Nap:  11am -   (asleep now)

His A times are just HUGE now & I am really struggling to fit a decent nap & CN into a day without it being 14hrs long.
If I was to repeat yesterday that would put BT at nearly 9pm.  I am not opposed to stretching BT a bit maybe to 7.30pm but not really any later if I can help it.

On my thread I've asked for opinions as to what to do i.e. keep the 2hr nap (if he does it of course) & do a shorter CN of 10mins to pull BT a touch earlier - though it would still probably need to be 8pm onwards, or do EBT.  I've had some support for 1 nap if its 2hrs+ but also the suggestion of capping the nap at 1.5hrs.  HOWEVER, if I do this the day would go:

Wake: 6.45
Nap: 11 - 12.30
CN:   4.30 - ?when?  4.45 or 5?
BT:   7.30-8.30     (maybe 7.15-7.30 if CN is only 10-15mins, OR 8-8.30 if I allow 30min CN)
My biggest concern is that if I am capping the AM nap already & then can only do a really tiny CN & STILL have to do a later BT, then he is having way less than 2hrs sleep in the day, which is far less than he'd have if I just let him nap & went with EBT (& hope & pray he does a decent night)

I know Z is a bit younger than O & his A times after short naps probably arent as high, but when you got to this sort of a stage how did you deal with it?  Would you let him sleep & shoot for EBT after say 5hrs?

[lily528]

Sara I would have been fine with gradual honestly but she refuses the CN even with a short nap so I guess I don't have much of a choice. I sm very jealous of you AND Kara. Just feel like I am doing it all wrong   what would U do if it were you?  She was up around 6:20 today. I hope you are right about the longer naps but right now they have been getting shorter since the start not longer :/. Pretty discouraging.

[choc]

Try not to get discouraged Melissa.  Does she wake happy?  Is she happy in the afternoon and STTN?  Maybe thats all the sleep she needs.  What is her first A time ending up as?

After our first 1 nap day yesterday, Aidan slept til 7am this morning.  We put down at 12pm, was asleep in about 3 mins.  He woke at 35 mins, pretty much the same as yesterday but put himself back to sleep with no intervention this time!  Yay!  Still sleping now at 1 hour.  Hoping for at least another 30 mins but not holding out much hope!

EDIT to say he cried out at 1hr but went back to sleep again.  he is waking up now at 1hr 20/25 mins ish.  Same as yesterday.  Good or not good??

[*Kara*]

That's good Gemma   I find we can get through with one nap of 1 hr 30 mins, I just pull BT up 15 mins or so if needed.

Melissa - you can stop being jealous now   Alexandra didn't go to sleep until 745pm after her monster nap yesterday and she was up at 510am very unsettled... she didn't have any NW or outcries (first time in 5 days) but she was very unhappy to be awake this morning... I think she is getting sick.  I have a sore throat and I suspect she has too - dry cough today   I managed to get her to snuggle until 620am... then she only took 3/4 of her bottle, a small breakfast and then a small bottle before hitting the crib mattress for a nap at 1030am.  This could suck.

[choc]

Thanks, I am happy seeing as it is only the 2nd day and he hadnt napped longer than 40 mins for a while before this!  I did bedtime 20 mins early for the 1st time ever!!!

Sorry you are both getting poorly.

[ZacsMumme]

Melissa, it tooks us months to get to 1 nap...very slowly I think if you cant get the CN in you just need to stick it out with cold turkey. You are doing everything right. I would however make sure that her nap is always at the same time every day so your LO gets used to taking a nap at that time. If she wakes early or sleeps in move the nap 15mins forward or later but other than that it is fixed. Give it 3 loooong weeks and cross your fingers

Hugs Claire I tackled things a bit differently because Zac is pretty touchy when it comes to sleep. For me BT were pretty much fixed at ~7pm. If he refused a CN it was EBT at 6pm. I also refused to give him his nap before 10.30am but usually it was a 4.5hr A time. If I got a CN after the next 4.5 it was ALWAYS in the Car (GROSS) then 2hrs to BT.

Our days would be like this (usually WU and BT between 6-7) Ill do it for a 6am WU and see how it looks for you to ponder

WU 6
A 4.5hrs
Nap 10.30 for 1.5hrs+ (We were getting 2hrs most days. I NEVER woke him from this nap unless it hit 3 hours so he got used to the long nap)
A 4.25/4.5hrs
CN ~4.20pm based on 1.5hr nap or 4.50 after 2hr nap (He would actually only usually last 4hrs20 then drift off in car with his dummy and lovey)
A 2-2.25hrs
BT ~7 (7.15pm at latest really)

Without CN it would go...
WU 6
A 4.5hrs
Nap 10.30 for 2+ hours (If Zac slept till 1pm I knew I could do 6pm BT and 1 nap day IYKWIM)
A 5hrs or to 6pm (hopefully if got a 2.5hr nap or refused CN)
BT 6pm

EBT worked for us thank goodness. I got to the point when we were doing the CN every few days, or a few days in a row then not for a few...then he just refused over and over and his naps got shorter for a week. Then he got sick/teething and now its like it has fallen into place.

I must say our A times were longer before or no shorter than now. WU usually ~7am I pretty much do a set nap of 11.30-11.45ish and he will sleep no longer than 2.30 (I will wake sometimes) If he wakes earlier than 2hours we stay in his room quietly, this is usually due to teething pain. BT are still 6pm if EBT due to rubbish nap, or between 7-7.30 now for BT. Zac will fluff around at BT for a while sometimes...probably UT but we don't hear him on the monitor, DH just heard him when walking past, so until we get refusal etc I am leaving things as is.

Personally, I wouldn't cap your good nap. I know 1.5 is restorative, but you may find he starts to nap that long all the time if you start to cap it, this happened to me for a bit so I started over. As time went on Zac slept longer for the 'nap' that we kept.

Gemma - 1hr20 for us is always pain or UT so you could try pushing an extra 10mins after a few days? Great progress with longer than 40mins!

[choc]

Never thought of UT!  Thanks.  He is cutting molars too so will medicate before naps and stick to it a bit longer then if no change I'll push it out a little. Thanks Sara.

[clairebear79]

Thanks so much for that Sara.

Personally, I wouldn't cap your good nap.

I think I agree.  If he is carrying any OT I need to let him sleep what he needs in order to keep us going.

I also refused to give him his nap before 10.30am but usually it was a 4.5hr A time.

I used to do no earlier than 10am but lately its been tricky with all the EW that came after our cold turkey to 1 nap attempt & he's been napping some days as early as 9am.  Of course I should know more than anyone that allowing early naps encourages EW    So I may reinstate that rule.  Thanks for reminding me! 

I think we are having difficulty now b/c O's A times have shot up hugely in the last month or so.  We keep on getting in UT/OT loops & I think this is b/c O NEEDS to be on 1 nap asap.  Yesterday he was OT, did 4hrs A, 2hr nap, 4.5hrs A, 20min CN & 3hrs A to BT.  He slept a whopping 11h 45 night to catch up & so today I PD at the usual 4h 15 A time & it went:

WU:   6.45am                  (11h 45 night sleep)
A:     4h 15                     (did this b/c yesterday 4hrs A gave 2hr nap & he'd caught up on some OT so knew his A needed increasing back to usual 4h 15)
Nap:  11.00am - 12.30pm  (asleep within 5mins of PD.  woke himself after 1.5hrs & very happy)
A:      5h 50
BT:    6.20pm

We went out to the beach this afternoon & I timed the journey home to start at 4.30pm (4hrs A).  It takes 45mins to get home & he didn't sleep, despite yawning & rubbing eyes several times during the journey.  I was sure he'd CN as he did yesterday after a longer nap than today.  We were late home for tea & of course weren't in time to do a 6pm or earlier BT.  He's OT again.  So we're UT for nap, causing OT by BT b/c he refuses CN.

We are going to plough on with 4.5hrs A tomorrow & for the next week in order to progress us one step closer to 1 nap.  I am going to let him sleep & offer a CN but EBT if it is refused.  Hope that sounds like a good plan!

[lily528]

sigh another 1 hr nap day from a 12 hr sttn.  I can't believe it...well it was 1 hr 10 mins but whatever really. 2nd day in a row she has started yawning like crazy at 10 or so....i pushed her hesitantly until 11:45...did the bottle barely drank it went into the crib where she played for 15-20 mins!  then slept til 1:10 (1hr 10 mins)  BT at 6pm AGAIN...she played til nearly 6:30 though.  I don't know what is going on anymore...i can't see sticking with somethign that isn't working for 3 weeks just hoping it will turn the corner...that may be silly for me to think that way but it is very difficult to stay optimistic when i am getting such terribly short naps and now playing at the start of sleep times.  I am clearly getting it all wrong...part of me felt I should have put her down at 10:30 when she first showed signs of tired...and then maybe she'd CN later since the first nap was so early in the day but I just didn't know if she would and I was scared    maybe she isn't ready for one nap?  she is going to be 14 mos old next week..i hate that I am so lost...she relies on me to give her what she needs and I am failing...i feel awful...and need help...i need answers...

most days her morning A is around 5-5.5hrs...then these days takes a 1 hr nap...followed by 5.5 hr A time to EBT

[*Kara*]

HUGE HUGS Melissa - you are doing a fantastic job!  These little people don't come with manuals or the ability to speak so we have to figure things out by trial and error   If she is happy during her A times, she is getting enough sleep.  Another tell tale sign of not enough sleep - permanent red-rimmed eyes (ask me or Claire about those!)

Well, I might be the meanest mom ever   This is our last 24 hours -

Bedtime last night - 745pm (after a 3 hr nap that ended at 230pm)
STTN with no NW/cries etc until 510am - GROSS.  Tried to resettle with no success - did keep her quiet and relaxed/snuggly until 620am (she dozed for a few mins at a time). 
Nap - totally shattered at 1020am in the car - woke when we got home at 1025am... quick bottle top up and back to sleep for 1030am.
Woke from nap at 12:10pm (slept very soundly)
Tried to have her at least snuggle with me on the couch for a bit around 430pm... no dice.
In bed at 645pm - out like a light!

It's 8.05pm now and I haven't heard a peep!  PHEW!  I thought I would be in for an OT NW soon after BT

Luckily Dh is home tomorrow so she can sleep in as late as she likes (hopefully that is later than 5am )

[ZacsMumme]

He is cutting molars too

Eww. When Zac cuts he only does 1.5hour naps usually. I medicate before too but its a rough patch so maybe those shorter naps are partially due to that

(HUGS) Claire, at least he got quiet time in the car. (At least that is what I told myself when we had CN refusal meaning rush to a decent BT ) Hang in there sweetie, every day is 1 closer to him managing 1 nap days. Good luck this week

i can't see sticking with somethign that isn't working for 3 weeks just hoping it will turn the corner

Here is how/why it works. Basically what you are doing isnt working anyway right? Every time you keep changing her As back and forth and offering 1 or 2 then 1 nap with different times she gets confused and her body cant get used to any kind of timing. If you stick with something two things happen. 1) their bodies start to adjust and 2) They start to feel tired at the time of PD and are more likely to sleep and sleep more soundly because they know it is time to sleep and that it is all they will get till BT. I know it is hard to believe, and I struggled with it too....but if nothing else is working then you only have something to gain, plus consistency for yourself. She is doing 12hr STTNs which means at least she is rested every morning. AND - You are not failing love....I wish I got STTN every night!

[clairebear79]

Melissa - absolutely 100% agree with Sara.  (((hugs))) You are absolutely not a failure, you are a great mummy who is trying to do the best for her little girl.  Remember I have also very recently been in EXACTLY the position you are in now with my DS.  We went cold turkey to 1 nap, the first few days were great, got a later WU of 7am & BAM! it all went to pot, we got 1hr naps, then 30min naps then EW's & after 2 weeks I caved in & we have chopped & changed ever since.  I have come to realise that changing it up all the time will in itself will just confuse O more, so I am gradually working back to 1 nap by increasing his A by 15mins every 3 days.  And I am staying with it so his bodyclock gets used to it.

Honey, if you can stick it out for another week or so, things should be looking so much better.  You are already 1.5weeks in right?  Half way there.xxx

p.s. we did 4.5hrs A today & he has just woken after 1hr 15mins.  Siigh.  Its a tough old road for us all.  And yes you are very lucky with 12hrs STTN.

[clairebear79]

OK need some opinions here:  DS resettled & slept a total nap of 2h 15mins. 

Great nap, but b/c he was up at 5.30am, did 4.5hrs A time, nap started at 10am & finished at 12.15pm.  His usual BT is 7pm, so what the heck counts as EBT when they wake at 5.30am   If I shoot for 6pm then that's 5.75hrs A time to BT.  Does that sound too much   He did 6hrs yesterday after a 1.5hr nap & had OT NW's.

I could try for a CN but I'm really not convinced I'll get it b/c he refused yesterday after having just 1.5hrs nap, although the day before he did take one.  I think I'll try at about 5pm & even if he just does 5mins, it would tide him over til his usual BT wouldn't it?  I'll make sure we have tea before the CN attempt today though!