18 month sleep regression support thread

[clairebear79]

trimbler - yes we seem to be more or less settled on:

Up:   7.15
Nap: 1.15-3pm
BT:   8pm straight to sleep & STTN

Sara - when we got the EW - there was no going back to sleep!  When we had the 12.30pm 2hr nap & 7.30pm BT, he started taking until 8pm to fall asleep & would then wake happy the next day at 6am.  Then after 2-3 days of this he'd be overtired b/c his days too long/nights too short, we'd get a long night & then it started all over again.  We were in a right old mess for a while.  As you know I started capping, which did yield some results for a while, then I decided he seemed OT so on hols I relaxed & let him nap for longer again.  TBH I don't actually know how we got to the 1.15pm nap as I can't really say I've held strong & stuck at his set naptime like glue & say pushed it on 15mins/week or anything like that lol! I suppose I had it in my mind that he needed his nap pushing later to combat the EW so I tried to stay as close to 1pm naptime as possible, but if we got a really early start I'd definitely do earlier nap & earlier BT to stop him getting too OT. 

Hope things improve for everyone soon.  Remember the mantra 'its just a phase & it shall pass'.xx

[creations]

It is truly amazing but I think his little brain must be on overdrive!  I think this is part of the reason they suddenly start to take ages to settle to sleep at bedtime

This is clearly the case with DS.  He gets into the BT routine and I can see him getting sleepy as he knows what's coming and then all of a sudden his brain goes 100mph and he is coming out with all sorts of words and sounds and getting really physical with his bed refusal.
We've had so many EWs now that yesterday he dropped off to sleep on the way home from group, only 11.30am.  Sara I remembered what you suggested last time we had car nap problems and gave him an oat cake to eat (I couldn't back then but can now, new car seat that sits upright now he is finally big enough for it!) on the way home.  He ate it, I passed another when I was stopped at traffic lights, he ate that too and he still managed to fall asleep.  It's only a 5 min drive.  Well it resulted in the first 7.30 BT in a whole week.  He went down a dream.  But up at 4am, v quick resettle, then up for the day at 5am
For a whole week he has refused to sleep until 7.50 or 7.55pm.  I think I should take this as his new BT but didn't really want to move nap and BT at the same time.  Funnily enough the late BT started the same day that he chose to start using the potty again after a full 6 weeks of potty refusal.  It can't be a coincidence, it's a developmental leap.

[stardust599]

Hello ladies. I have no laptop as delightful LO poured a bottle of bubbles over it. So just a very quick update on my phone. Will read thread another time. LO is very tired and grumpy and was not settling with OT. So we have gone back to uncapped nap and 7pmish BT. This gave us a 12hour night last night and 11hours the night before. Not sure how long this will work but LO is still tired and grumpy so

[stardust599]

Putting things onhold for a while. Ba k soon. Excuse any typos - my phone re kons it can spell better than me!!!

[ZacsMumme]

We've been pushing the nap back by 15mins each time, but it does take him at least a couple of weeks to settle with the new time, by which I mean to nap well fairly consistently and to be consistent enough in his sleep patterns to have a reasonable guess at what to try next!

same here..its taking us a while for everything to be the way it was with a consistant WU (ie 6.45-7am) ATM we are a bit all over the place with WU

We had our first day of not really wanting to nap. Z still accepted it, and went in his cot, but he was full of beans and wanted to play. He shook his head when I asked him to put his arm out for his sleep sack - which usually he does on his own! I suspect we are heading to either a later nap than 12.30 OR a slightly shorter nap I dont want our day to get any greater than 13hrs (its usually 12.5) but I also want that 2hr nap...I am greedy!

[trimbler]

Creations - there's definitely something developmental going on at 16mo! I'm not sure what the rest of your day is like, but are you trying for 7:30pm BT/PD? I know we went through a period where we had 7:30pm PD but M wasn't getting to sleep until close to 8pm. Then I realised he was a bit UT at BT and then OT by the time he fell asleep, which caused more EWs. Either that, or he was more rested from having been in his cot a bit earlier than he really needed, and we got happy EWs. Not sure if this will work for you, but on days where he'd had a good nap, we started pushing BT to 7:45pm and that just seemed to be what he needed - started getting to sleep much more quickly and doing good nights again... for a couple of weeks before the next thing hit

Stardust - (((hugs))) you do seem to be having a rough time and you must be extra tired too. Sounds like you're doing the right thing if she's getting more sleep now, I'd keep going as you are but keep a careful eye for the first signs of the OT going. I know sometimes when we've compensated for OT we've carried on letting DS sleep longer for just a little too long and then we'd get a happy, full of beans EW because he'd suddenly caught up! Easier to realise that in retrospect, of course

I dont want our day to get any greater than 13hrs (its usually 12.5) but I also want that 2hr nap...I am greedy!

I know what you mean! But I'm trying to lower my expectations now as I really can't believe that M can do the 13h 'recommended/average' daily sleep for toddlers...

Remember the mantra 'its just a phase & it shall pass'.xx

Thanks, Claire - will keep trying to remind myself of this! So, another month to go...? Well done on getting through

[ZacsMumme]

Quote from: ZacsMumme on Yesterday at 21:21:29
I dont want our day to get any greater than 13hrs (its usually 12.5) but I also want that 2hr nap...I am greedy!

I know what you mean! But I'm trying to lower my expectations now as I really can't believe that M can do the 13h 'recommended/average' daily sleep for toddlers...

The thing is, since Z has been on 1 nap he usually does 13-13.5hrs in a 24hr period when well and not in a developmental leap/teething or sick...so really he isn't LSN as I used to think, he was early to transition from 3-2 and 2-1 naps etc but really needs the avge amount of sleep

Well we had a weird night. Z has started talking to his stuffed animals (he has a wee Cat and a cow in his cot) at night! I head him giggling at 4.30 and 5.45am!!!! Went back to sleep at both on his own then up at 7am.Do I need to be worried about UT or does this sound developmental? He also talked to them this morning on WU rather than wanting out when I came in...he was telling me all about them

[ZacsMumme]

and Trimbler - love your avatar!

[creations]

I'm not sure what the rest of your day is like, but are you trying for 7:30pm BT/PD?

Yes we did well for a while on 12.30 nap and 7pm BT.  Then 7.30 BT because of refusal.  But now he's refusing up to 7.50 or 7.55 for a while week (minus 1 night) so I have been planning on moving BT so that he will go straight down at that time rather than 20 mins of fighting which drains me and doesn't seem all that pleasant for him either.  I keep putting off changing it because he looks so tired in the evening that every day I am sure he is going to go to sleep at 7.30, but he doesn't so it's really time to change it.  I'm going to try 7.45 as he may go down 5 or 10 min earlier than when he has all that fighting.
TBH he's totally totally fine (apart from waking screaming with the EW).  He isn't struggling to get through the day or getting grumpy or anything, the fixed naps and BT are all (well mostly) to accommodate ME!  I don't like 5am morning WU so will tweak until we get something better.
He woke at 4am again this morning but self settled. Yesterday when this happened he was up for the day at 5am.  Today I went in at 4.15 and did a W2S and it got him past 5am   A 6.10am cooing wake up with lovely chatter and smiles

[ZacsMumme]

Creations we had the same thing at 16 months and I thought UT pushed and it became OT...a few EBT and 'time' fixed this. In hindsight I think it was a WW

[creations]

Thanks Sara.  I don't follow the WWs (bad mummy!) but even without working out the dates I would swear he's just had one.  This past week has been a marked increase in language, independence, tantrums, imaginative play, all sorts of things.  It was 10 days prior to this that he started getting tricky at BT and eventually I moved BT from 7 to 7.30 to accommodate but for the last week he's refused 7.30 too.
So, like you I thought UT for BT but maybe I was wrong?  I purposely aimed for 7.45 tonight and he still messed around until 7.55.  Maybe I'm totally out though, I've now got a hunch to go back to 7pm BT.
I hate BT fighting but today was quite funny.  He was doing pretend sneezes and was really pleased with himself, I had to work hard not to laugh and join in his party!

[ZacsMumme]

Have a read of my thread at this time and see if you think it sounds the same or not...

It's long because I kept going back to the same thing so maybe a skim basically it ended with slightly later nap, capped at 2 hrs then BT 5 hrs later http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=224631.0

Def sounds like a WW yay for development...boo for sleep

[creations]

Thank you Sara.  I actually only got as far as page 2 and some recognition bells went off.  It's stuff I've already thought over and over but I push those thoughts away because I think I must be mad.
Anyway - it's what Sammysmammy said about nap capping.  Clairebear suggested nap capping to me and I decided I to take her advice and not let him go over 2hrs even though I've never been into capping his naps.  What sammysmammy said on your thread about the nap getting shorter and shorter so that when he's ready to drop it it's only a CN, this makes total sense and I feel more comfortable about capping his nap now.  The other thing that occurred to me though is that DS was getting a great 11.5 or even 12hr+ night after a 1.5hr nap.  It seems like madness because at this age he should need more than 1.5hrs nap.  Of course I was constantly worried his nap wasn't as long as it was supposed to be but felt reassured by his night sleep.
Then throw in cutting a few teeth, a vomiting bug, a 2hr nap a 10hr night, another 2hr nap, another 10hr night...then refusing nap because he needed a poo, OT for the nap, long nap, UT for bed, short night...and before you know it we are on 9hrs a night and falling asleep on the way to toddler group at 9.20am.
I thought I needed to make his nap a little later...oh it doesn't matter what I thought...

What I think NOW is that I need to go back to the 12.30 nap (already done today) and 7pm BT and shorten his nap.  Most times now he can't get through the whole nap alone and wakes screaming and I dash to sooth and resettle.  It's like de ja vu when he moved to one nap I kept resettling and resettling his nap convinced he needed longer when all he needed was to get up and get on with the day (then EBT, 12 hr or 13 hr night and late WU).  To me waking screaming during a nap indicates OT but this must be the third or fourth time I've fallen into doing this with DS rather than just getting him up.
Anyway, I'm waffling, I'll stop.  You've helped me to figure out what to try.  Thank you xx

[lily528]

Hey girls..bad things are happening over here :/ 

I just want to cry...my dd went through a little blip a while back where she would take a long time to fall asleep at nap time and even bed time at points ok 18 month regression..got it....we got back on track and had a lovely schedule...she is 21 months old now

wu 8ish a.m
naptime 1-3/3:30
bt 8 pm

now she still goes to bed at 8pm
but gets up more around 7:15-7:20 most mornings (though I still see 8 here and there)
nap times 1-3/3:30 EXCEPT in the last week she didn't nap 2x at all..just played for an hour 1/2- 2hrs
today she was playing for nearly an hour but I think she FINALLY just fell asleep

I realize 2 x is nothing to get worked up over but I am just afraid to let it become more regular you know?  just looking for anyone who could tell me maybe why she is doing this and if there is anything I can do to change it?

the last two times I've always kind of been afraid to go in and intervene at all but eventually i did go in and give her a bottle which we dropped forever ago but it makes her sleepy USUALLY and I thought it do the trick but it didn't...so today I kept going in and laying her back down and saying sleep, and night night...she'd get right back up but I think finally after an hour of this she is asleep..whew

I'm just at a loss as to what causes it some times but most times the schedule works just fine and we get GREAT sleep...

so now it's 2pm no idea what time she'll wake but even if it's the usual 3ish I'll take it over nothing but still...what's going on?  any thoughts?

[clairebear79]

hiya melissa.  Have you done a thread about this as I don't think this is 18month regression stuff anymore.  TBH hun, I think she is UT.  She's only been doing a 5hr A time before her nap & this is really short for her age now.  I think this is why you are a) getting the resistance & she's not falling asleep (b/c she simply isn't tired enough to) or b) if she does nap, then it is likely this is why you get the bedtime resistance, because with a short AM A time followed by a long nap, she will still be UT at BT.

Oliver is now doing 6hrs A time in the AM before his nap, and napping for 1h 45mins (capped), with a 5hr A time to bed.  He is starting to get UT with this & we are also getting some earlier WU's so I'm on the verge of capping at 1.5hrs.  I've had to accept that at this age I'm simply not going to get a 12hr night plus a 2-2.5hr nap anymore & I think its likely this is what's happening with A too - her sleep needs are reducing as she nears her 2nd birthday.

I wonder if you try extending that AM A time a bit whether she would take the nap more readily yk? Perhaps shoot for more like 5.5 or 6hrs A.  Of course, if you do this you will be unlikely to be able to keep the long 2-2.5hr nap as she probably won't be tired enough for bed.  So you may need to start capping the nap.  Or, if you are happy for her to keep going to bed at 8pm & wake at 7/7.15am (which is still a great night & exactly what Oliver is doing right now ) then I would probably wake her in the AM if she doesn't wake herself, offer the nap at 1/1.15 & get her up by 3pm at the latest, keep bedtime at 8pm so she isn't UT at bedtime.  You might find she will manage this just fine & keep on napping.

Did the no-nap days happen on days she woke at 8am, or did they happen on days she woke at 7.15am?

I think all you can do is keep offering the nap & if she still doesn't go down then you offer an early bedtime & accept this may be the very start of her 1-0 i.e. dropping the nap.  This can take a really long time so try not to worry!  Also I do seem to remember reading lots of threads from folks with LO's approaching age 2 who say they suddenly get nap refusal & worry its the end of the nap but then after a couple of weeks they suddenly start napping again so it may just be a passing phase.