Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread

[bjutka1]

I don't think I could do without formula completely. I will have to go slow and reduce it gradually as she is able to tolerate more foods. It gives me peace of mind that it is nutritionally complete. I know it's highly processed but I think it's as good as I'm gonna get at the mo. Wish I was still breastfeeding! Wish I found this book earlier. Honestly, giving up breastfeeding was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Absolutely broke my heart, I was consumed by that pain for months!

Just some questions about fats. Would you trust commercially available fats like beef dripping, goose fat? If it says nothing added, nothing taken away... What do you think? Could I just give her a tspf of olive oil on its own? Or would you have to mix it in with the broth? To have enough fat from a chicken, I would need to be roasting one every other day...

[bug_blues70]

Jutka - I'd think you *could* give the olive oil plain, but it might be a little rich so I'd probably try to mix it with something. I also probably wouldn't trust commercially available meat products b/c even if it is what they say - nothing added - they're tricky with that. They add stuff to the feed and/or inject antibiotics or other stuff before slaughter and then they don't have to list it on the label. Maybe if it were organic it would be ok, or could you find a local butcher and buy scraps from him to render fat from? And about the FF - have you tried the liver based formula from that link that Rebecca posted? I haven't yet, but I'm going to try it on Saturday b/c I'm going to be gone all day and won't be able to nurse him.

[tigerlilly905]

I also probably wouldn't trust commercially available meat products b/c even if it is what they say - nothing added - they're tricky with that. They add stuff to the feed and/or inject antibiotics or other stuff before slaughter and then they don't have to list it on the label. Maybe if it were organic it would be ok, or could you find a local butcher and buy scraps from him to render fat from? And about the FF - have you tried the liver based formula from that link that Rebecca posted? I haven't yet, but I'm going to try it on Saturday b/c I'm going to be gone all day and won't be able to nurse him.

Agreed. I wouldn't trust any of the commercial stuff, especially with such a delicate situation such as this. I got a whole mason jar full of meat jelly from the lamb roast we did last night. Im sure it will last us at least a week or more for Arthur.  It's very easy to do yourself. Just pop a roast (grass fed beef, new zealand lamb ect) in the crock pot. Cook until well done. All of the juices and good fats will drip into the bottom of the crock pot. Just pour those into a mason jar and you've got your meat broth/meat jelly.

[tigerlilly905]

Also, there still is the reinducing lactation using domperidone. Even if Julia didn't take to nursing again, you could still pump for her. Even if you couldn't exclusively provide BM for her, every ounce she gets is beneficial.

Jenn... I was thinking about you this morning. I think you need to up Emily's probiotics a bit more, or try and introduce a very small amount of SKJ to get some die off going. The amount of probiotic needed to induce die off is very different from person to person so no one can say "take X amount and you'll start healing", kwim? I could consider a small amout of SKJ to see if that gets things going... just a thought. Some mamas I've talked to said it took up to 40 - 50 bil CFU's to start to see die off...

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

Is it possible to ever take TOO many probiotics? We haven't seen die off in ANY way in any of us So I could up the dose. I haven't made any SK yet. I think my Mom made some so maybe I will go borrow some from her. Good news is Emily started pooping a bit more frequently!!

[tigerlilly905]

OOHH!! That is great news Jenn! Something must be clicking. It's my understanding that it's impossible to really "OD" on probiotics, but if you up them too quickly and produce too much die off, thats when you start run into issues b/c the body can't detox fast enough, kwim?

Honestly, I really didnt know what die off felt like until the other day when I upped my probiotics to 100 bil CFUs (and that's not including the other probiotics I was getting from sauerkraut, fermented turnips, fermented carrots ect)  After I went through that, I now understand what it is.. and what  my boys have been going through. Obviously you don't want too much die off, but you do want to get to that therapeutic level for healing I would think.

[tigerlilly905]

Some good advice from the GAPS yahoo group:

" We were doing FAILSAFE 8-10 months before coming across GAPS, and it was good to have some background knowledge of what he was sensitive to before starting GAPS.  He now seems to tolerate most vegies no trouble,  but still has hives to most fruit (except stewed pear).

My LO had a whole body rash/rough skin after taking the digestive enzymes at night time, which apparently assists with detox but it was just too much for him.  Perhaps your DS2 is going through the same detox type reaction?  I would think that anything 'more' of the healing/detox foods at the moment would make him more sensitive as his pathways are probably overloaded.  I know this slowly slowly requires a LOT of patience!  However, it does seem that we could increase things a fair bit quicker after the initial period of die off/detox.  Hopefully it is the same for you too. You may want to reduce the SKJ/probiotics a little to just let him get rid of that rash before increasing again.

Other things I can think of right now:

    If you are making up batches of stock/meat to freeze, amines build up quickly so apparently use your frozen batches within 3-4 weeks of freezing, and refrigerate/freeze as soon as possible (obviously wait to cool in fridge prior to freezing partic if using glass jars!)...
    Have you tried your DS2 using a straw to minimise broth/food contact with his face?

    Detox baths

    Juicing ? My LO has the face rash to carrot juice so we just try kale and beetroot.  (Although he hates it, I haven't juiced recently for him as he just won't drink it).  The beetroot is apparently very cleansing.  

    My LO is on some herbs from our naturopath to help support his liver and help his detox pathways.
    I try new foods on a half full or mostly full stomach.  Seems to react less when we do this (i.e. for us thiss was ghee, sardines)"

I appreciated getting this message bc what she's going through with her lo seems almost exactly what we experienced with Arthur. She's the one who had to do bone/meat broths for 5 months. Her Ds is now 18 months and they were able to start intro 3 months ago after the months of just bf'ing + broths/stock/meat jelly. She is still Bf'ing and doing intro slowly.

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

That's some helpful info!

Thanks for the info about the probiotics also. I will up her dose again and go steal some SKJ from my Mom.

Ok I need to have a little rant about Emily's immunizations this morning. We have immunized both our kids as DH and I both have mixed feelings on not So anyways now that Emily is 6 months old, she can have a flu shot which I'm not comfy with for any of us. So I decline and just say no thanks. She says Emily was a preemie and is far more likely to get sick. Yes I know, no thank you. She asks if I even know what the flu is. Yes I know, I'm not interested in the vaccine, thank you. Looks down her nose at me and says well if you're comfortable with risking her life... Wth?  Anyways so she had me fill out a ages and stages development thing but for a 6 month old so Emily failed it. So she is trying to refer me to all these specialists to help with "Emily's disabilities". Again I declined because she is developing fine but 6 weeks behind her actual age and TBH, she is FAR ahead of where Ethan was at her real age and he's fine. Again a whole speech about how catching it early and blah blah blah. So then a different nurse pops her head in to bring in the vaccine and the lady says oh we don't need the flu one because this girl turned it down EVEN though she has a preemie. Cue evil look from other nurse and me now feeling like I'm abusing my child for two different things. They do the 6 month vaccination and then she starts asking me questions about Emily and asks if I have started her on solids. So I said not really although I have tried to give her a little bit of chicken broth. The nurse gives me a funny look and says chicken broth has absolutely no nutritional value and is just full of sodium. I say it's homemade and I'm fine with it. Then she says well she needs to get onto some rice cereal because as soon as they turn 6 months they need more then just breast milk. Then she asks about her sleeping habits and I tell her she wakes up a lot but whatever and then the nurse says that I should start her on formula because formula fed babies sleep through the night. Ok seriously. What the heck? After that I stopped giving honest answers and just worked on getting us out of there.

Anyways a bit off topic there

[tigerlilly905]

O.M.G Jenn!... Only a quick moment to post, but that's unreal!! It just goes to show people "don't know what they don't know"... Ignorance makes me so upset.  You're doing an amazing thing for Emily and I think you're doing everything just right. Stick with your gut... conventional medicine is very disillutioned sometimes (well, more often then not I'm finding, but thats JMHO)

Do you have access to a good ND? Have you checked out GAPS practitioners in Alberta? I think I saw some on the GAPS.me website.

Honestly, situations like that are what stopped me from going to our reg. Dr's.  The last time Ds2 was at the Drs was at his 2 mth appt and I disagreed with everything our Dr. was saying.  She said he had to go on zantac, HAF and a laxitive... NO THANK YOU!! I will do an ED, continue to BF and heal my son naturally thankyouverymuch

[kim&savannah]

Jenn~ Wow.  That's pretty much all I have to say about your appt.  Glad you were able to hang in there and stood your ground.  I let myself be bullied into getting a flu shot last year while pg (and still got the flu, and while it wasn't fun for a couple days there, I was fine.)  And as far as the food goes--my dr, who is very mainstream and not particularly excited about some of the stuff i'm doing with H, agreed that homemade chicken broth, and the chicken, was WAY better food than rice cereal.

[Erin M]

Oh Jenn, I'm sorry. 
We've been blessed with some fairly open minded peds so far, can't imagine.  And Kim, when I told my doc we were sticking with chicken and veggies for food, she told me not to bother with rice cereal so maybe some of them have a clue!

[Mom to M&M]

Ugh Jenn, I'm sorry too. And WTG for standing your ground!

Sorry to post and dash but have to go pick up DD from Hebrew school. But wondering - I woke up this morning with a red itchy rash on my chin and just now broke out with a strange rash on my arms (pictures attached). Any ideas? I know I didn't have gluten today - maybe slight contamination from last night (I took roast beef and organic cheese off a sandwich and had it on gluten free rice cakes instead)?

[tigerlilly905]

I woke up this morning with a red itchy rash on my chin and just now broke out with a strange rash on my arms (pictures attached). Any ideas

Seriously, this  kinda looks like the rash I had on my arms the other day when I upped my probiotics. Did you up yours by chance? Are you also working through some more die off perhaps

[Mom to M&M]

I haven't changed or upped probiotics in about two weeks. I have been eating less carbs recently though. ITCHY!

[tigerlilly905]

I have been eating less carbs recently though

That would do it! The bad guys feed off of carbs right? Maybe you're starving them out?

I felt terrible that one day...sooo itchy! My lips and arms... it was like my skin was crawling! Makes me really appreciate how hard this can be on these kiddos!

How's your DD btw Karen?