Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[labrodyk]

Yeah no it was a good night, I don't mind the NF's really - just annoys me when I know she CAN sleep through but we'll just power through and hopefully by 12 months or a bit later she'll be doing it herself! Haha.

Yes, first experience with the sheer amount of germs! Even managed to pick up chickenpox despite being vaccinated (furious to say the least!). Anyway, we'll get there.

This morning nap I assume UT? She was showing tired sign after tired sign in quick succession and starting to get fussy so I just took a stab. Plus side she went down relatively happy and just a minimal protest. Those feeds after solids she's very sleepy on the bottle but she perks back up once I burp her and change activity although usually about 30/40 minutes later the tired signs start. My concern (if her A times are indeed too short) why she wants to fall asleep on the bottle - if she wasn't tired yet she wouldn't do this, no?

Worst mother ever though...ds was having a meltdown tantrum so I popped A in the pram only to soon figure out by the blood curdling screams that I didn't strap her in. As she reached for a fallen toy she toppled head first out onto the ground, hitting her head on DS's kitchen stools in the process. Poor thing looks like I've punched her face up. Feeling so terrible!

Second nap of 1.45; 1.50 asleep - 2.33 but woke yawning and crying immediately.

S: 1.45; 1.50-2.33. 2.44-3.20, woke crying then slept until 3.30. What would this be?!
E: 4.30. Solids
A:
E: 6.05. 200ml bottle
BT: 6.26; asleep by 6.36.
NW: 9.30; tangled in sleeping bag on her tummy/crying. Fixed her up and she was asleep quickly
NF: 2.33-2.43
S: 2.45

WU: 6.30-7.00? Chatting and playing.
E: 7.20. solids.
A:
E: 8.45. 170ml bottle
A: trip to the park
S: 9.58; 10.00-10.08 (what kind of nap is this?!?)cLay playing for 20 minutes before I got her out of bed.
A: went out for lunch
E: 12.00. Solids
A:
E: 1.20. 150ml bottle at home
S: 2.03; 2.12 asleep. Cough and settle 2.19-2.45!!

This is absolutely ridiculous!!!

[becj86]

My concern (if her A times are indeed too short) why she wants to fall asleep on the bottle - if she wasn't tired yet she wouldn't do this, no?

She will even if not tired, its relaxing, yk? Drinking warm milk, cuddling up to mummy, wanting to sleep after a big meal... surely you can relate to a little bit of that? Ever fallen asleep lying in the warm sun or curled up under a blanket during the day?

Worst mother ever though...ds was having a meltdown tantrum so I popped A in the pram only to soon figure out by the blood curdling screams that I didn't strap her in. As she reached for a fallen toy she toppled head first out onto the ground, hitting her head on DS's kitchen stools in the process. Poor thing looks like I've punched her face up. Feeling so terrible!

Aw We all have days like that. Hugs, hope her face is looking and feeling better soon!

Sorry, I don't have any explanation for the 8 minute nap, that's a new one!

woke crying then slept until 3.30. What would this be?!

Dream?

[labrodyk]

yes, I know it must be super nice and relaxing for her - I love cuddling her to! but, should I push her through the A time afterwards? She just seems so sleepy!

Sorry! it wasn't at 8 minute nap today - was 1hr 8 minutes so from 10-11.08 and this afternoon was 30-35 minutes TOPS. I didn't get her out of bed until 3.30 when she started crying. Before that she was moaning and rolling around and just being a nugget!  Hubby's feeding her now and doing BT so hopefully asleep by 6.30 or slightly later.

All her naps are just so short... I really wish we could crack a good few weeks or so of proper napping. Should I push the A time, pull it back, leave it and just roll with each day? So hard to know what to do and especially after a short nap I'm left with this sense of 'what now?'.

[becj86]

1:08 is UT - slightly. She made it through the transition but not tired enough for the full 2 sleep cycles, so generally a little increase from there would be enough to increase but you've a little enigma there... you can try all the theoretical tweaks and cross your fingers or just wing it

[labrodyk]

I'm SO tired, sorry to keep pestering you!

Doesn't seem to make any difference what I do, does it?! Oh what a mess, nothing comes easy for us. Not feeding, not sleeping - the two primary functions of a baby! **sigh**

Tonight she woke at 10pm and I tried to pat her which she was happy for me to do but I couldn't get her to stay asleep. In the end I offered her some milk and she was asleep the whole time and took less than 1/2 a normal bottle so I know she wasn't hungry - I'm assuming OT?

[becj86]

Doesn't seem to make any difference what I do, does it?! Oh what a mess, nothing comes easy for us. Not feeding, not sleeping - the two primary functions of a baby! **sigh**

Nope, unfortunately she's upset somehow either way you go I can feel your frustration reading this.

Could be OT, teeth? Getting used to her new room?

[labrodyk]

Hi Bec!! Bit of an update here. Sleep is just a complete mess (as usual).  Lol. A times have dropped, she's falling asleep on her post solids bottle after only a 2hr A! We have a new tooth and I think the other is on its way too. She is just SO grumpy and it's tired cues for each and every A time. Just at a total loss of what to do! I feel so cruel keeping her awake to try and push her through to a longer A in hope of a better nap because she's really upset and I feel like I'm trying really really hard. She's also not interested in anything. None of her toys, cries in car/pram and is just a grizzly upset possum.

WU: 7.00
Nap: 9.57; practically asleep in my arms. Had to wake her (typical!!) at 11.10
Nap: 3.20-3.25. Toddler tantrum in the car woke her.
Nap: 4.00-4.33 (car)
BT: 6.53. Asleep 7ish. Passed out on her tummy.
NW: 7.46pm woke crying. Resettled.

WU: 6.24
E: 7.00. Solids
E: 8.15. Milk bottle. Fell asleep, woke when burped.
S: 9.10; 9.20-9.50
^^ again, yawning and rubbing eyes continuously despite changing activities.
E: 11.30. Milk bottle
A:
S: 12.15-12.45 (pram)
E: 1.30. Solids
A:
S: 3.10 (crying hard, went and cuddled and shush/pat on my shoulder and put down again). Slight mantra cry but asleep 3.20-4.25.
^^ so hard to work out because she was continually rubbing her eyes and yawning.
E: 4.30. Milk bottle
A:
E: 5.30. Solids
A:
BT: 7.00; asleep by 7.20
NW: 9.20. Crying.
^^ white noise fan turned itself off?!?
NW: 3.00-4.10. Crying and couldn't get her to resettle.

WU: 6.44
OOB: 7.00
E: 7.20. Solids
A:
E: 8.20. 120ml bottle. Fell asleep!!
A:
S: 9.30; 9.40-11.40.
^Again, almost asleep in my arms but cried when I put her down but she slept 2 hours!
E: 12.30 solids
E: 1.45. Bottle
S: 3.00-4.00ish in the pram at friends house. I'm not entirely sure of this but she didn't call out until around 4.20.
E: solids 5.20 + milk top up immediately afterwards
A:
E: 6.50. milk bottle
BT: 7.10; asleep by 7.25.

At bedtime and through the night she's been tummy sleeping but not in the day! Not sure why but I assume she's ok.

Just really struggling with being consistent with A times especially given her tendency to REALLY want to fall asleep, rub eyes, yawn from the time I offer that bottle at 2hr A.

This morning we got a 1hr 15min nap which I feel is OT because she was so cranky/tired leading up to it. what do you think?

WU: 6.30
OOB: 6.55
E: 7.10. solids
A:
E: 8.27. Bottle
A:
S: 9.15; 9.18-10.35
E: 11.40. Solids
A:
E: 12.30. Bottle
A:
S: 1.38; 1.43-1.58. 2.00-2.39, 2.44-2.47, trying so hard to resettle but crying.
OOB at 3.15
E: little biscuit snack
A:
E: 4.30. Solids
A:
E: 5.40. Bottle 200ml
BT: 6.05; 6.20 asleep by

WU: 6.30
E: 6.45. Solids
A:
E: 7.45. Bottle

[becj86]

Its possible she's chronically OT from the short naps for so long and she needs that big push to get consistent good naps and recover but I think it might be worth getting a doc to look her over, just to check there's nothing health-wise happening. This kind of grumpiness is normal sometimes but it seems to be all the time for her and whilst I don't have any suggestions as to what could be going on, I do think there could be something. Her nights aren't what I'd expect if she were chronically OT, though. I was thinking reflux but its at the same time in the day rather than the same time after feeding since you've shifted feed time (though is it still around the same time after the end of a feed since she was taking so long to finish a bottle which can also be a sign of reflux. It could be something else or it could be nothing. I wonder about fluid in her ears, for instance.

1hr15 naps are usually a sign that you're pretty close to the right A time - LO made it through the transition to another sleep cycle, so wasn't OT and wasn't too UT but not quite tired enough to sleep the full 1.5hr, yk?

She slept a full 2hr nap after 3hr A only when she'd had that long NW. If the only thing you were after was that she'd sleep, then I'd say increase those A times but I'm just not convinced as to why she's so upset.

[labrodyk]

I was thinking the same and took her to the doc yesterday afternoon. Nothing wrong with her apart from teething - 1 bottom one is through, the other SO close. I suggested the reflux again but talking with doc it doesn't appear that's the case.

Where do I even START with A times now, I'm so confused. I was doing PD in bed at 3hrs...

WU: 6.30
E: 6.45. Solids
A:
E: 7.45. Bottle
A:
S: 9.36; ? - 10.53. Maybe 1 hour, 1hr 5/10 min?

Do I decrease the 3hr A time for anything less than 1.5hrs? And if she's awake in bed but I don't get her out, how do I work out A time?

[becj86]

What do you want to do wrt her upset? I think the options are:
1. Put her down for sleep when she appears tired and just wing it
2. PD in bed consistently at 3hr A time regardless of upset and watch for a week or so then tweak from there.

I understand feeling cruel keeping her up. I can encourage you to push through that if I thought it was definitely going to yield better naps consistently and then result in her being less upset through her A time. I'm just not convinced that's the case here since you've really tried this for quite a while. When I've got a bit of time, I'm going to trawl back through your thread and see if I can build a bit of a picture and see if there has been enough consistency to check if there's any longer term trends.

[labrodyk]

To be honest, the last few days haven't been as bad... I don't know whether it's because that coincides with the teeth coming through or having slept through the night with no wakings so is a little more rested.

I'll keep pushing through with 3hrs but if she keeps waking at 40 minutes/1hr/1hr10/15 etc - what do i do!?

[becj86]

Increase A to 3:15 and see how that goes.

[labrodyk]

Ok, is that completely regardless of nap length??! Rest of our day has gone like this... Do I do an EBT of 6pm?

E: 11.30. Solids
A:
E: 1.00. Bottle
S: 2.02; ? - 2.40. Had a little chat/cry before falling asleep. Dozed with eyes 1/2 open for about 10 minutes at 2.40 before waking at 2.55! So a 30ish minute nap again.

[becj86]

I'd increase before the equivalent nap the following day, so still do 2:45-3hr after short nap then do 3:15 the following day.

[labrodyk]

Thanks Bec, I'll stick with 3hr15 for a few days. I only got 1hr5/10 this morning after that A...

BT: 5.56. Asleep 6.19
NW: 5.30. Fussed for about 25 minutes then slept on and off until wakeup.

WU: 7.00
E: 7.10. Solids
A:
E: 8.10. Bottle
A: park. Almost fell asleep in car
S: 10.13; 10.19/23 - 11.30