Predictable Unpredictability - Please help us!

[becj86]

Was she hungry when she woke? Possibly UT :-/ I guess since she's had a few good nights in a row, she could be ready for more A again. How has her A time been?

[labrodyk]

she played quietly for 20 minutes and then cried so hubby fed her and she took quite a substantial bottle!! So;

S: 2.37; 2.41-3.21.
E: 3.40. bottle approx 180ml
A:
E: 5.00. Solids
A:
E: 6.05. bottle
BT: 6.22; 6.42 asleep by.
^^ I did BT tonight for Audrey tonight rather than hubby and she seemed to get a second wind after her bottle (which she was super sleepy/eyes closing on). Took her a while to settle but just chatting, looking around then dozing before finally closing her eyes fully.
NW: 3.30-3.40 crying
NF: 3.40-3.55
S: 3.55; 4.05-?

WU: ? Was awake when I woke at 6.45
E: 7.00. Solids
A:
E: 8.30. Bottle only 100ml
A: vaccinations
S: 10.10-10.50 (car)
E: 11.30. Solids
A:
E: 1.00. Bottle


Her A's are ok, aiming to have her PD in bed at 3hrs15min and 3hrs if a short nap. She's not as cranky as she used to be but still quite hard to read. once you take her to her room then all the tired signs come hard and fast but before that, not AS many as before.

Reading some other posts here on BW many say that 1hr10/15min naps are OT yet the longer naps for her are coming USUALLY after far longer A times than what she's doing. I don't mind getting out with her to spend her A it's the travel home where I'm finding she'd very very happily fall asleep before I even started the car.

[becj86]

Reading some other posts here on BW many say that 1hr10/15min naps are OT

IME, this is the case at an older age than 6mo - more so when LO is on one nap.

S: 10.10-10.50 (car)

Longer than you usually get in the car, no?

[labrodyk]

Ok thanks for clarifying Bec! Much appreciated 

Yes! The longest we've ever had - 40 minutes, what an achievement!! 

I've pulled A time back substantially and I know it will backfire but she was so cranky and upset, likely from her needles, so I put her down at 1.30. Will either go for a quick CN or EBT at 6.

ETA: ok, 1hr30min with a quick chat/cry out after 40 minutes but she rolled onto her tummy and resettled. Is a 6.15 BT ok?

[becj86]

Yep, fair enough - everything goes out the window with vaccinations.

[labrodyk]

This was our random day today unfortunately every time I check the monitor tonight she doesn't appear to be asleep - either eyes open but still or 1/2 closed and dozing. Only a handful of times does she look fast asleep. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong!? I've got kindy pickup and drop off tomorrow and Friday. How do I play things if she's due a nap right at the time or shortly before I have to leave to drop off or pickup?

These naps where she wakes in the middle of the second sleep cycle must be so bad for her, she's starting to get really cranky again.

WU: 5.51-6.02
OOB: 6.30
E: 6.45. bottle 100ml
A:
E: 8.00. Solids
A:
S: 9.30-10.45 (pram Pushed into her room after walk).
E: 12.00. Solids.
A: shopping. Had to keep her awake in the car.
E: 1.45. Bottle 160ml.
S: 2.00; 2.10-2.30 (20min). 2.36-3.06 (30min). 3.15-3.20 (5 min)
^^ was very awake/alert so possibly OS and OT?
E: 4.20. Solids
A:
E: 5.45. Bottle 200ml!
BT: 5.58; 6.15 at the latest but woke after 30 minutes! She has settled back down though but very restless still 2 hours into night sleep...

[becj86]

S: 2.00; 2.10-2.30 (20min). 2.36-3.06 (30min). 3.15-3.20 (5 min)^^ was very awake/alert so possibly OS and OT?

Those wakings look OS, yes.

Little OT at BT too

Keep in mind she may still be a little off colour with the vaccinations. The immune response does give symptoms, so I'd take all issues with a grain of salt at the moment.

[labrodyk]

Ok so OT all around despite heaps of cuddles but she seems to be doing okay with vaccinations...
Tonight is the first night in months that she's cried at bedtime. She was falling asleep on her bottle, was quiet for 10 minutes when I put her down and now crying and can't settle so I had to rock her to sleep. First time ever that I've done that, is she going to forget she can self settle?!

Thursday 28/5
WU: 6.40.
OOB: 7.00
E: 7.10. Solids
A:
E: 9.00. Bottle 180ml
A: rubbing eyes 9.37
S: 10.04; 10.09-12.17
E: 12.30. Solids
A:
E: 2.00. Bottle 200ml
A: made it home in the car.
S: 3.27; 3.35-4.05 (30 minutes). Waiting until she started crying after 15 minutes to get her up, 4.20.
^^ We read a book, had a cuddle in chair then lay her down on her side - didn't cry at all yet slept so little.
E: 5.00. Solids
A:
E: 6.30. Bottle 240ml
BT: 6.50; 7.20.
^^ quiet for 10 minutes and then crying! Hasn't cried at bedtime for so long. I just rocked her in my arms until she was asleep then popped her down.

[becj86]

First time ever that I've done that, is she going to forget she can self settle?!

IME, so long as the APOP is temporary (ie. you don't go back to AP for 3 months for every single sleep), its fine. I find once they're through the illness/developmental period/ the routine is right (though that's a struggle with young Miss A) LO's go back to sleeping fine.
A little help when LO is OT is way better than leaving them to figure it out, I think, they're not in the best condition to be learning anything when OT.

Lovely morning nap
Not so flash PM nap, hence OT at BT. Interesting she didn't cry when she woke at 30min - have you tried resettling those?

[labrodyk]

I find it extremely difficult to resettle because I have back issues and any prolonged period of either sitting or standing aggravates it (I've already had surgery...). When she's in the portacot I find it so hard to resettle her as she's on the lowest setting and I can't get down to shush or pat or anything.  Usually once she's awake...she's awake...and I just don't have the time or energy to spend long periods trying to resettle.

I'm also finding it extremely difficult to get to and from kindy for my 3.5yo and fitting in any crappy nap I can... Is there any way I could work out an easy with a small catnap in the morning and a longer midday/afternoon nap with perhaps an EBT? Today was great because I dropped DS and then put miss A in the pram and she slept 40/50 minutes whilst I had a walk and a coffee. Unfortunately our lunch time nap was only 1hr20min but she was falling asleep in her lunch so I put her down. Thought she might have done a bit better? Anywho, these early wakings, short and unrestorative naps are going to kill me soon.

Perhaps I could do a nap a couple of hours after wakeup for 30-45 minutes (likel apop in the pram or car) and then aim for a longer one of 2-2.5 hrs from 12.30 or so? I don't know... It would really help me work around drop off and pick up and a little more 'go with the flow'.

Friday 29/5
WU: 6.00
OOB: 6.20
E: 6:30. Solids
A:
E: 7.50. Bottle.
A:
S: 9.00-9.45/50
E: 10.45. Bottle 200ml
A:
E: 11.45. Solids but was falling asleep and constantly rubbing her eyes/not eating.
S: 12.00; 12.07-1.26  Just laying in bed for over 20 minutes, haven't got her up yet.
 

[becj86]

Sure, sounds like a good idea - worth a try anyway. Walk and coffee sounds good! It might be a bit of a faff trying to work out optimal A time after a short nap - maybe 3hr? Are you thinking set naps at all? Could be worth trying...

[labrodyk]

hi Bec! so rather than screaming the whole way in the car she actually fell asleep for 20 minutes in the car. I think if we're in the car after a short nap closer to 3hrs she's just too OT to settle. We were back on the road after 2 hours awake and she whinged and played but did actually fall asleep after 2hr40min A. Awake at 4.15 and DH is settling her tonight at 7pm.

Yes, so how would set naps work? I honestly was thinking something along the lines of;

WU: fx for anything later than 6am?
Nap 1: 9.00-9.30/9.45 in either car or pram. Cot if I can't get out and about.
Nap 2: 12.30-2.30/3 (this might be wishful thinking?
BT: 6/6.30/7 ?

What would BT be as this plan leaves a VERY long time until bed. If that second nap is only 1.5 or 1.20 like today or gosh, even less at 30/40 minutes then I'm in trouble aren't we?

I'm just trying to reduce as much stress on everyone. I could do this version of EASY on preschool days and long naps on the other days but then there's just no consistency which is what I want to give her. If I could pick some times and just stick to it come hell or high water then maybe things would improve? Having said that, I can't be stuck at home waiting for a nap to start or end right at the time I'd need to leave to drop off or pickup. Kindy is 8.30-3.30. Drop off is variable so I thought that would be the easiest to tailor to nap time (even if I get him there early and go for a long coffee walk like i did today) whereas he can't be at kindy any later than 3.30.

Please let me know your thoughts, I'm keen to try anything with hubby home this weekend to help.

Many thanks for all your ongoing support (16 pages is just purely ridiculous, I'm so sorry).

ETA: crying again tonight at bedtime! Quiet and calm when put down after a big bottle but soon got upset before falling asleep...so;
Nap 3: 3.53-4.15
BT: 6.556; 7.07 with a little crying
NW: cry out at 11.35 resettled herself after a few minutes until 11.48.
DH and I resettled (cuddle to calm in our arms then pat in cot) twice for 1/2 hour each time but both times we left her quiet and assuming asleep, she cried when we got back into bed.
NF: 1.05. 180ml bottle
S: 1.15 -

Is that an OT, NW? Perhaps we should have fed straight away but she had a huge dinner and an almost 300ml bottle just before bed, when she can go all night on far less surely she can go longer on such a huge amount?

[becj86]

I think 9 and 12:30 would be reasonable for set naps. I would cap at 45min rather than 30. I guess I would then say BT at 6:30 latest, ideally 6 as she doesn't tend to do well with a long A to bed :-/ I guess having to be at kindy at 3:30 is a bit of a barrier to a later BT/WU. I would think with one short nap and one long one, she'd do a long night so long as it doesn't make her OT. Its a balance to strike but I think it would be ok for her given her general trends.

If that second nap is shorter, I think you have to either do a super early BT (but that can backfire) and hope she tacks on or try for another catnap in there.

WRT crying in the car before sleep - L developed a car-specific mantra cry, still happens at 5yo... its just a different cry that I now know he'll sleep in the car but it does escalate quite a bit with a hum sort of sound in it just before he drops off. Maybe she is just OT and can't settle - nice she can settle if she's been in the car for a while.

That waking doesn't sound so much like OT or UT - maybe the big dinner was just gurgling around and its still a strange sensation to her? Could be dreams...

[labrodyk]

Oh man...the desire to make things better is there but I just couldn't wake her!! What a great start 

WU: 6.40
OOB/e: 7.00 (100ml Max!)
A:
E: 8.00. Solids
S: 9.15; 9.18-11.14!
^ protested but sleeps 2 hours? I know we had a crappy night but that A was only a little over 2.5hrs...

Hmmm, I give up!

[becj86]

Her night really makes a difference! That or her body is well suited to set naps and she'll sleep ok at that time. Or she's just feeling the sleep mood today