Anyone Want To Talk About the 2-1 Transition? Thread #13

[jakobsmommy]

help!

5am wake up - we have been getting 15 min earlier every day and i think the school run and my parents are not helping (cant seem to alter either)

on a good day Jakob wakes at 6am, 4.5 hr wake and short nap and then needs a nap about 3-3.15 which is when i leave the house for the school run.  he often wont sleep in the buggy and if he does i have to disturb him to get him out of the car etc (he might sleep through the disturbance but wakes shortly after) if he doesnt he gets over tired, sleeps 4pm - 5pm and is ready for bed at 7-7.30 then wakes progressively earlier each day.

my parent look after him weds and thurs and ALWAYS decide to go shopping when he is due for a nap - ive no idea why and ive told them it messes it all up (sort of - already messed up really!) and have him falling asleep in cars on my dads chest (!) oh god its impossible

he hasnt had a 2 hr sleep for months and rarely sleeps above 1hr 15.

im leaving him sleep today as he did 5am - 10.15 awake to see if he will have a big long sleep and only one sleep??

whatever i do seems to have no continuity

big brother (4.5) has suitcases under his eyes as jakob wakes him and he thinks hes missing out, he wont go to bed unless jakobs going to bed so i cant stagger their bed times...jakobs impossible to keep quiet enough to fool Misha lol!

so confused and exhausted

[spodnic]

Hugs Jakobsmommy, I'm in the same boat with the school runs and sibling's bedtime. No advice either except to say eventually it will get better. Hang in there!

Nicola

[kimmbba]

Well, my 4:30-5 CN was a disaster!  I woke him, he was miserable, crying for the better part of an hour.  Wouldn't eat dinner, finally I put him in the bath and he was happier.  Then figured, okay let's try bed at 6:15 but he wasn't ready.  So we played in the upstairs play area until 7.  He fell asleep around 7:30 and then still woke at 5:15!!!  I'm glad I went to bed at 9pm   I hate getting up in the dark too.  It's the worst.

He's seeming much better from the cold today at least.  However, I dread the idea of trying to get in two naps again today.  I nearly always let him take a long am nap because you never know if he's going to actually take a pm nap.  Usually refuses, but the last few days being sick has eventually taken one.  I just won't do the late CN again!

[timmysmommy]

Hi ladies!  I was on here a few weeks ago and you were all so helpful, I was hoping you could help me out again!  I have been having lots of trouble with nw's and ew's.  I had been capping his first nap to one hour and letting him sleep for his second nap, usually an hour and a half.  Well the other day, he only took a 45 min PM nap, and he sttn for the first time!  So yesterday I planned to do two one hr naps, but he refused AM nap, so I let him take a 2 hr mid afternoon nap.  He was a little cranky before bed, but he sttn again, and we are finally back to 11 hr nights.  Is capping both naps to one hour okay, or should I be going about this some other way?  Clearly more than 2 hrs is too much day sleep for him.  He has always been low sleep needs, so this doesn't come as a surprise.  How should I structure the 2 hrs?  Thaks for your help!

[rozza]

Hi there,

First of all - wow, I cant believe I've found this thread!  We just cant work out how to tweak DS2's daytime naps and I wondered if you can give me any advice.  He's always been an early riser but we've been hitting the 5 o'clock mark for the past weeks and it's killing me.  He's been steadily on a 2 nap day, having one in the morning around 9.30 for about an hour and one in the afternoon at 2 ish for the same time.  But now he is properly refusing the afternoon one despite being obviously exhausted.  Even if we leave it till 3 or 4 and try a cat nap he wont have it (sometimes in the car he drops off).

My question is this... do we start to push his morning nap back later and later as suggested in some of the other transition threads or do we cut the morning nap short so that he'll have a second one around 1.  I havent tried the first option yet but we have had some success with the second one... ie he will actually have a nap but it's made the ew's earlier and earlier so I'm inclined to give up and try something else.  His bed time is currently 7 but he's so tired by then he doesnt know what to do with himself.

Are there any clues as to which strategy is best to follow?

Heeelllllllp (yawn)  not sure how long we can keep this up!

xxxxxxx

[kimmbba]

Rozza, we were and are again in the same boat!  Up at 5 and refusing second nap (generally).  I think you need to go with what works for DS.  I initially tried the short am nap, but then he'd refuse the pm nap which meant he was up for 7 hours until BT.  After trying this without success for a while, I started to give him longer A time in the morning.  Currently, we're at 5 hours in the morning (before his recent cold) hope for a 2 hour nap and then it's a breeze until BT.  Seems like a lot of them at this age are trying to pull off the 5am wake up.  I just read BWSYP and didn't see any rhyme or reason to this??  Anyone else know what this is all about?

On that note...Ethan was up at 5:15, but talked to himself and played around until 5:45.  Do the rest of you count the wake up as 5:15 then?  He was up for 5 hours, went down with no problem for a nap.  Woke after 30 min. as the garbage truck was slamming stuff around outside his window.  Then went back to sleep after 10 min. of rolling around.  I let him sleep for 2.5 hours.  Might live to regret this tonight, but he's been sick and he only slept about 10 hours last night so I'm hoping he was catching up?  Hasn't slept for longer than 1.5 hour nap in a week, so hopefully we're getting back to normal (whatever that is)

[~Karen~]

They just like to test us, lol!  I'm going with the longer am nap and shorter pm for a couple of reasons.  Firstly, I only have him at home four mornings a week so it's nice when he's asleep for most of it as I can actually get some house work done!  Secondly because if he refuses a second nap then at least he's had a decent first nap and doesn't end up doing 30 mins of sleep all day.  Our day today when like this:

645am - Wake up
10am-1145am - Nap
340pm-410pm - Nap
7pm bedtime (but took about 30 mins to go to sleep tonight so was probably a bit early).

Today was a good day though, yesterday he took two short naps so had to put him to bed at 6pm. 

I just read BWSYP and didn't see any rhyme or reason to this??  Anyone else know what this is all about?

Honestly, I find the transition period from 2 to 1 naps the biggest PITA!  It's great when they're on two long naps and it's great when they're on one long afternoon nap but it's the getting them there while avoiding the OT monster that is the problem! 

Rozza - He defiantly needs to be going to bed earlier than 7pm if he's up at 5am and refusing an afternoon nap.  You may even find that an earlier bedtime will result in a later wake up time 

[rozza]

Thanks for your ideas and support, i think I'm going to try pushing the morning nap back slowly and see where that gets us. Hopefully he'll sleep for longer when he's more tired and then perhaps we can get a catnap in the car or buggy in the afternoon or have a very early bedtime. I do think there's some mileage in the idea that the ew could partly be down to OT.

Just on a similar topic, DS1 is at preschool and I have to pick him up at either 12 (if he doesn't have lunch) or 12.30 if he does. We can drive (5 min journey) or walk 45 min round trip with tired DS1 walking back up hill!! But either way it's gonna mess up DS2s nap. Anyone else had this problem??

[lulunut]

Sherry lyn- I have a while ago tried to shorten the am nap but with my work schedule and him sleeping at different places 3 days a week this messing things up.  Really, I just go with whatever he does.  As long as he gets some sleep.  He has never got good day sleep.  Used to be a 30 min napper!  So this is good.  The long am nap seems to work better for schedules and changing locations. 

Today he went 4.5 am A time and 2 hour nap.  Woke at 12pm and didn't want a pm nap.  I put him down at 6:30.  Maybe this will work!!  We shall see if he does any NW.  Then I can start to just push is am A time and maybe I can finally get 1 nap.  YAY!

Kimmba- I swear we have the same kid!!  I enjoy following you and your solutions.  They are helpful.  Hugs to you!

Thanks!

Good sleep vibes to everyone!!!

[~Sarah~]

How did I miss the new thread.  Have to read and come back later

[bug_blues70]

So, with regard a late CN, if her bedtime is 7 for 7.30 what's the latest I could do it? 20-30 mins would be okay, but when's the cutoff?

I think it depends completely on your LO and trial and error is probably the only way to figure it out. Ellen has napped as late as w/u at 5 and gone to bed at 7 (with a really long atime before that) but that's not typical. Usually she needs more atime than that even after a 20 min nap. But she also won't go down for her CN without sufficient atime beforehand, so it might be necessary to push back BT a little bit.

Sophie - On a one nap day, Ellen can do 4 hrs in the morning after a good night (we JUST made the leap from 3:45.. yay!!!) but she can do 5:20 in the evenings after a 2hr nap or she's UT for BT, so there's a huge discrepancy in her atimes b/t morning and night and I've been wondering if it's normal, but it works, so... I guess it's different for every LO.

How should I structure the 2 hrs?

I think it's just trial and error to find out what works best for Timmy... You could try an hour and a half and then 20 or 30 min (or the other way around if you prefer short/long or if one way works better for Timmy) or try an hour and an hour... pretty much, I think if he's happy and rested during the day and STTN good, then whatever works best for you. Don't be afraid to try different combinations to figure out what works best for him. The only reason I would know of to do short/long or long/short rather than equal would be so that he gets used to napping for a long time at least once a day so that when it's time to start dropping one of them altogether, he's not used to short-napping. Also, some people say that a 1hr nap is not restorative (but FWIW I'm not sure I personally agree).

Good luck to everyone!!

[ccaawc]

I think dd has just started a habitual waking at 4am

2 days ago she woke at 4am (I bf her hoping she'll go back down easily but no, she cried hard) and went back to sleep at 6-7:20, had only one nap that day from 10:50-1:00, BT at 7:40 ( too late I know, but that's the earliest I can manage )

That nite, she woke at 11pm, resettle herself in a min, then she stood up in her cot at 3, looked around and lied down for an hr but not sleeping, just toss n turn in bed until 4, cried (bf again ), went back to sleep 4:35 until 7. So even she was in bed from 7:40-7, minus the NW, she really only had 10 hrs nite as always.

yesterday, we went to a birthday party, she had a 55min am nap, then followed by 5hrs A! then a 30-40 (4:30 ish to 5:10) catnap in the car seat when we headed home. BT at 9. slept really well all nite ( she moves around in her cot alot usually )until 4, when she stood up in her cot and I was just sitting next to her, she went back down herself, took her 30min to go back to sleep (no bf) until 7am.

Today, she is going to a playgroup 12ish so long am nap is impossible as we have to run. Long pm is not possible either as she can only nap 40min max in her car seat. Or I can keep her up until we reach home hut then it's too late to have a long pm nap...what to do?

oh, and I heard from another mommy to a 14months old, her son has the strangest nap I have heard, her lo wakes at 6 followed by 9 hrs A!! nap from 3pm -8pm ! do dinner, then BT at 10ish and he STTN!

I feel like a failure that I am so stress about her naps and BT but STTN doesn't occur very frequently in this household. 

[bug_blues70]

cc - sounds like her 4a waking is not habitual, but OT. Is there anyway to stay home for a few days so she can nap properly and get caught up? If it were me, I'd skip playgroup and birthday parties and opt for nap-times instead. But that's just me cuz I need my night sleep and for us, if naps are off, nights are off.

[kimmbba]

CC, I agree with Megan.  LO isn't getting enough sleep IMO.  The naps during the day aren't long enough, and that'll mess up the night.  I would try to get her caught up and then you still might have to break the habit that will be created from waking and eating at 4am. 

Had a pretty good day all things considered.  Ethan is about 95% over the cold and I really think that was messing things up.  So next time everything goes haywire, I'll have to remember that maybe it's a cold that I can't see the symptoms of yet!

[ccaawc]

thanks Megan and Kim, I'll stay in for the rest of this week so dd can catch up on her sleep.

one question though, do u let them nap longer or do u wake them as usual? I am more nervous of UT NW than OT cos her UT NW are 2 hrs long and involve a lot of crying.

Today didn't turn out as bad as I thought, she napped 1hr15 am, went to playgroup, burnt all of her energy and nap in the car seat for 30min? when we return home. I am aiming for an earlier BT tonite and I hope she sleeps better.