12 month old with 30-45 min naps

[skatty]

Rachael, your LO's naps before the OT phase sound just like my DD's naps but they were making her continually OT as well. What fixed it was actually putting her down for her nap late one day, it was unavoidable as she had to go to the doctors so was up about 4½ hours I think. When we got home she slept for over an hour, the longest nap we'd had in months, she then had a 40 min nap late afternoon and she slept through the night  I then started to push her AM nap to 4 hours everyday and would let her sleep 20 mins in the pushchair walking late afternoon and that would buy us 2 hours to have dinner and the whole bath and bed routine. This worked a treat, after about a week her wake ups got later and I eventually got rid of the catnap and would just put her to bed after about 4hrs15 and then 4hrs30. She still only sleeps about 1hr15 - 1hr30 most days but this is better than the two naps put together and more refreshing as it is all in one go, she also now sleeps very long nights 13-14 hours which I actually think is more sleep in 24 hours than average for a 16 month old. As I have said many times on BW after having a terrible first year of naps I actually had a very smooth transition which I actually credit the bad naps for!! The real key was watching that afternoon A time, breaking it up with a catnap in the beginning and then just putting DD to bed very, very early. She can now have 5 hours A time in the morning but is still in bed after 4½ hours in the afternoon so goes to bed easily at 6-6.30pm.

I'm not sure this is right for you but it may be something to think about working towards 

[RACHPEM]

Thanks Skatty, I may well give that a try.  We have on occasion had to have a long A time due to commitments and she has done a longer nap, but on other days had short naps again.  I may well try it for a longer period and see if it works.  I think I just panic when things go wrong and have not got the confidence to push the boundaries incase we get worse off due to having such a bad first yr of naps.
Thanks again, I will let you know.
Rachael

[RACHPEM]

Just one thing, had you used to put your lo down after 4hrs + after wake time even if this varied or stuck to "a certain time"

[RACHPEM]

Just put her down at 9am " my selcted time" also 4hrs since woke. 30mins!!!!

[skatty]

I was putting her down after 4hrs of A time depending on when she woke, the problem is your LO is in the thick of being OT so stick with BTC as that is what you have commited to and seen if you can get over the OT and then move forward towards one nap. I hope she catches up quick 

Leslie, how was your night?

[RACHPEM]

i know I have said this before, but wont she just stay Ot. She slept well last night but has only taken 30 mins this morning.  Surely she cant keep going on 30mins?

[lesorl]

Katt, new mum, Momma Holmes, and Petra Kate- many thanks again for following the episodes of "As Madeline's world Turns".  Surely I would have been hospitalized by now without your support.

Rachael- you really must give it some time to work itself out.  One week seems like forever, but if you're consistent, you will see some improvement (of course you'll probably have some relapses too, but all in time).

Our night again had a 2 hour NW!  What the heck?

5:40pm Asleep
7:05pm screaming hysterically, at first she wouldn't let me lie her down.  When she settled some, I lied her down and kept my hand on her back for a bit, then stayed by her crib a little while.  B2S about 7:30pm
1:54am screaming hysterically, let me lie her down, and did the same as previous NW.  But when I left the room, she was screaming again.  I sent hubby in as I was dizzy, and he rocked her again despite my instructions.  B2S at 3:50am!
5:44am Awake, then B2S til about 6:08am

Any thoughts on these long NWs?  I'm carrying on, albeit unsuccessfully.

Leslie

[lesorl]

We had 35 mins this morning (9:12am-9:47am), and just put her down about 1:10pm, but expecting 30 mins or so.

I hope hubby hasn't created a habit the last 2 nights- I guess I'll be getting up from now on.

[RACHPEM]

Oh my today has been horrid!!!!
Woke this morning at 5am nap 9am 30 mins
next nap at 1.30pm - 30mins
tried to put her to bed at 5.45pm, no joy.  She has just dropped off at 6.20pm.
On a good nap day (whatever they are!) she is in bed 3.75 after nap, now we are at 4.5 I am worried she is just getting more and more OT.  She normally settles off well. 
I am not looking forward to tonight.
Rachael

[NiknLily]

Leslie got my fingers crossed for a good pm nap & no NW's 

Rachel - You just have to ride it out, her body clock has to reset itself before her naps can improve, honestly it will start to work, just takes time 

[MommaHolmes]

New mum - I wish I felt as positive today! Maybe it's just that I've got a clanging headache, but these are my thoughts..

Leslie - the re-emergence of long NWs makes me think that she is STILL majorly OT despite reinstituting two naps, having early bedtimes etc. etc. There must be something else going on that is preventing your LO from sleeping properly. My only theory (and I am not THAT convinced of it!) is that the AP you are doing to extend naps has created a 'nap waking habit', in the same way that babies can get into 'night waking habits' if parents are too eager to rush and feed them if they stir in the night. The sleep that she gets when you extend the nap on you will not be good quality restorative sleep and that is what she so desperately needs.
If you are totally convinced that that is not the problem then it might be the time to consult a sleep professional for some more expert help - I, for one, have run out of strategies to suggest   

Rachel - you have to choose a strategy that you can commit to. If you think that the A time strategy was working OK for your LO then go back to that - there's nothing worse than changing what you are doing on someone else's advice if you don't believe it's the right thing to do.
FWIW I would have tried for a 5pm bedtime at the latest given her wake up time and nap lengths today.

[skatty]

Leslie, I agree with Momma Holmes, long NWs in this house are definitely when L is really OT. Maybe your doc could refer you to a sleep clinic or would you have to pay for this?

Rachael, I have just been reading through an old thread I had going ages ago when L was severely OT, I had nap by nap advice and support from Elmarie who is absolutely wonderful  She advised that I put L down no longer than 2½ hours after waking from her first nap to avoid getting anymore OT and also have her in her pram (she sleeps outside) after 2hrs45 after waking in the morning. I had many days of 2 x 30 min naps in this period but I kept putting her to bed early and over a few weeks (felt like forever at the time!) she started catching up again. She was in a real mess, short naps, NWs and EWs and I was desperate! I extended a few of her PM naps by taking her out walking, not making any eye contact and not speaking to her because I found when she had a short nap she would wake and be happy and wide awake but after about 20 mins would be rubbing her eyes and looking miserable. I wrote in the thread that she'd have a good day, a mediocre day and then a terrible day  The great thing is that it all seems so long ago now and it will for you too! I was getting excited when she'd have a 12 hour night with multiple wakings that didn't last long, I'd now think a 12 hour night was short! So anyway if you really aren't comfortable with BTC you could always try the other extreme and cut her A times right down in the hope of getting a longer nap though L's morning nap remained at 30 mins the whole time, I just think that after being asleep at night this is all they need in the morning, it's the next A time you need to cut to avoid the OT but be prepared for an extremely early bedtime (4.30ish) if the PM nap goes pear shaped or do what you can to get a catnap!!

[lesorl]

Oh goodness... Momma Holmes and Katt your posts make me feel both validated  and disheartened 

If I could find a sleep specialist, I would have done so a long, long time ago.  Money is no object in this respect.

(Katt- up late tonight??)

Today went:

9:12am-9:47am Nap
1:09pm-2:14pm Nap
5:40pm Bedtime

The afternoon nap is the reason I don't think my AP is affecting her own extension of naps.

I

[skatty]

Hi Leslie, yes I was up late last night, I had a danish class and was wired after drinking caffeinated coffee and then Leorah was up for an hour last night just moaning and crying in her cot (1am  ). We would put teething gel on and she'd settle for about 15 mins and then cry again, we gave medised as it seems to be her teeth bothering her and in the end and she finally settled. That was just one night but it really made  feel for those of you that have it everynight.

That PM nap was good, in fact you had a good nap day so I hope had a good night. I really thought that it would all be sorted by now, I thought I had a bad time with naps but I think M was about 7/8 months when I first read about your probs and they are still going on  I think you want to see a medical sleep specialist not someone who is going to give you strategies, I mean you have tried them all apart from CIO so what can they tell you  I'm sure there is a thread somewhere where someone has been to a sleep clinic or specialist with their LO, perhaps you could search for that and maybe get some info from them.

[lesorl]

Success (somewhat anyway, but you know me- I take my victories where I can get them)!

After yesterday afternoon's 65 min nap, she slept from 5:40pm-5:17am with NO NWs!!!  Earlier wake up than desired, but really much, much better than the 2+ hour NWs.

The differences yesterday:

  *Afternoon nap > 1 hour
  *Ibuprofen before bed (lasts longer), however I didn't give her any Monday night either and we didn't have any NWs.
  *Mommy and me group after 1st nap
 
Carrying on, carrying on...

Katt- yes, we've always struggled with naps.  From about 4 months-10 months, we had no NWs but about 3 short naps each day, with the occasional longer nap.  I really don't know how we've made it this far.  Hope Leorah's mouth feels better.

Leslie